Rana - did you have the full version on VHS?

What we really need is some brave soul to take the Shamaroo, YRF and VHS version of Sangam and create a definitive version (with no lip synch probs like YRF version) of the movie on 2 DVDr's for Zulmi consumption only! I should check my VHS version of Sangam (which will be in Pal) to see how much extra footage it has in it. The version that I had was not an official release ...

The VHS (Esquire) version that I have is 222 min 30 sec and even that is not complete. There are many segments that I recall for sure that I saw when Sagam was released in 1964 and are not there in any of the versions now. Some of those segments I listed them in this thread earlier. Listing Sangam to be 238 min confirms that. I thought Sangam was over 4 hrs.

Sure enough, some day I'll make a bridged DVD combining good print DVD and VHS segments to bridge the missing segments. Presently, I'm at the learning stages on how to succesfully and independently back up exact code on DVD+R. I have heard of additional card for connecting VHS output into PC for DVD conversion.

(BTW, my VHS copy is not bad. It's original Esquire from the good old, good VHS days. More importantly, it's Film to NTSC telecine. Correction: It's Film to PAL to NTSC)

BTW, any one interested in Sangam run time discrepencies will also be interested in Mera Naam Joker run time discrepencies.

Mera Naam Joker is discussed in this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=4457&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

At release, Sangam was 238 min.
My VHS copy of Sangam is 221 - 223 min.
YRF Sangam is 213 min.
Shemaroo Sangam is only 187 min.

Of the 8 min discrepency bet YRF Sangam and Esquire VHS Sangam, 3 min 25 sec are accounted for in the first 7 min of my VHS. Missing in YRF Sangam, but included in Esq VHS, is :

1) The beginning credits that has all the European shots in the background with excellent background music

and

2) Sunder, Gopal & Radha (children) go to playground. Radha rejects Sunder built model clay home and prefers Gopal's model clay castle that also has a Car in it. Sunder and Gopal fight over where will Radha live. Radha runs to the parents. rest is in the YRF Sangam.

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BTW, it has never been explained in Sangam,

1) Why did Gopal consider such a good friend that he will give up so much for him?? The only thing that we see is they are fighting.

2) Whatever happened to Sunder's Father/ Guardian (the house servant).
A possible explanation may be that when Sunder's father/ guardian died, Gopal consoled Sunder that he will take care of him from then on?? Only then Gopal's sacrifices make any sense. (Something similar also missing in KKKG, why was AB so angry at SRK. Perhaps, there was another death, that of Rani Mukherjee (because of rejection by SRK or some other reason), that infuriated big AB??)

I upgraded my video card and now have VIDEO IN. Video Card contains software CD to convert VHS video material into DVD. Will try making DVD segments of the portions not avail on DVD with a better PQ. Only uncertainty is how to merge DVD chaters and VHS-DVD chapters at proper locations.

If anyone has tried it, may be can post some hints.
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BTW Muz, did you check your un-official Sangam VHS yet??

The only way I can think of doing this is doing a DVD to DVD copy using home players. I get confused using the VOB edit software and I don't really know what is going on.

I have to pick up the Sangam VHS from my Dad's house. I'll get hold of it this weekend and have a look. One point - it will be in PAL so I can check the running time and post it on the boards on Sunday ... but will have to factor in the PAL speed-up.

If you want a hand trying to put together a full version of Sangam let me know ...

As I noticed recently, in another thread, from bbfc site, the relation between film length in feet and time (90 ft per min), I wanted to check film length in feet as on censor cert on my Esquire VHS.
Film in length in feet was unreadable. But, date of cc was very clear as July 17, 1974 (orig release was 1964; cc has to be renewed after 10 yrs). It appears that at the time of this cc issuance, cuts had already been made. From 238 min in 1964 to 223 min in 1974.

Someone has to find the original 1964 issue print to restore the missing segments.

I wonder if anyone in possession of 1964 print knows the value of the old print. No matter how worn out it might be.

Doordarshan has been advertizing RK films being broadcast on one of their channels. (The website is so mysteriously set up that it's impossible to find, when and where).

It'll be interesting to find out which version of Sangam and Mera Naam Joker (Run Times) are shown.

Anyone with access to this particular Doordarshan channel that's showing these films??

I can explain it to you but if I try doing it in words it will take forever and make it look more tedious then it really is. Just for info though you can use DVD Shrink once the VHS has been converted to DVD files (.ifo, .vob etc), you will use the ReAuthor mode.

I added the deleted scenes of K3G back into the movie this way with DVD Shrink. Depending on how many scenes you want to add will depend on how many title sets you will end up with.

Very easy though was you know how.

Another way would be is to convert the VHS Sangam to mpeg DVD compliant file and load it along with DVD Sangam into TMPGEnc DVD Author.

Thanks urbanlegend.

I'm far far behind in DVD fabricating and burning process. Presently, for the last 2-3 months, I have been struggling with any DVD burning. Assuming that my DVD burner gave up, I bought a new one (Pioneer), but no success. Could be software problem (DVD fab, Nero Ultra ed) or some incorrect click somewhere.

Eventually, I do want to make a Sangam and MNJ DVD containing best available segments from different sources and make it as complete as possible. I HOPE RK Films, YRF or someone else beats me to it and makes us a decent and complete DVD or a film print of these two films.

I saw Sangam in the first week and there already was rumour of Oh Mehbooba song cut. But, it was intact and has stayed intact so far. Moreover, I'm almost certain (99% ) that I saw full Lata verse of "Ye Mera Prem Patra Pad Kar". And, I'm certain (100% sure) that I saw full "O mere Sanam" song that included Mukesh sung verse (Sunte Hain Pyar Ki Duniya Mein Do Dil Mushkil Se Samaate Hain).

Actually, without the Mukesh verse in "O Mere Sanam" blame/ sympathy/ justification reverses. In other words, you get a different plot.

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May be, another topic to research after having upped Mera Naam Joker runtime from 224 min to 249 min. Doesn't look promising as my VHS too is 1974 version when cuts had already been made. But, I'll check Esquire VHS & YRF DVD. (Esq VHS is 223 min and orig 1964 run time is 238 min).

Muz, you mentioned earlier that you have an unofficial VHS of Sangam. Any luck finding that VHS ??

Hi Rana

Yes - my Dad has it in his collection - it is in the UK and now I am in the US. Next trip back I will look for it!

Somehow, I deduced incorrectly from my initial note that there is no 4% speed shift in Esq VHS. Actually, it's "No Diff in speed bet VHS, YRF DVD or Shem DVD". Corrected all my earlier posts in this thread.

YRF DVD, Shemaroo DVD and Esq VHS all are 4% speed shifted. All come from same 1974 cc print for 6346.9 meters film length (most clear in Shemaroo DVD). This implies a film run time of 231 min 30 sec

Sangam 1964 run time was 238 min.
Esq VHS is 222 min 25 sec video time equalling 231 min 40 sec film time.
YRF DVD is 213 min video time, 221 min film time.
Shem DVD is 187 min video, 195 min film time.

Esq VHS is the full 1974 version.
So, really only 6 min discrepency between Orig 1964 release and my Esq VHS. It's most likely in "O Mere Sanam Mukesh verse" and "Ye Mera Prem Patra Lata Version".
Missing portion in O Mere Sanam, Mukesh verse, I have in Nitin Mukesh Concert video. 60 to 90 sec counted here.

Another possible missing clip:
When RK sees Rajinder and he pretends didn't see, scene may be incomplete ?? If anyone recall this scene from 1964 ?? When RK comes home, tells Vyj Mala that Rajinder ignored him, walked away and then went to his home and he made servant reply that Rajinder not home even though he was in. RK visiting Rajinder home, is not shown.

Of the 10 min diff btw YRF and Esq VHS, I already counted 3.5 min in the starting 7 min. If anyone interested, I can track and report further differences to account full 9-10 min diff.

Another set of corrections made in this thread as I had said my Esq VHS to be 221 min where as it's 222 min 30 sec. 222 min 30 sec 4% speed up video is eqiv to 231 min 40 sec film run time, same as 1974 cc length.

Out of interest - does anyone know if YRF ever fixed the audio / video sync problem that they had on the DVD release of Sangam? I can't stand watching it due to that problem and would really like to find a new version that is as complete as possible with the sync issues fixed.

Anyway - just wondering if anyone bought this recently ... ... ...