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sknath
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 6:24 pm 
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urbanlegend wrote:
SkNath,

See what I mean...look what they are telling their customers regarding the DVD:

Now they are doing nothing but bullsh*t in regards to these films. Customer service reps are actually telling folks there is not a problem.

Click below for the full thread (not too long):

BTTF DVD

UL are you aware of any forum/organization here in Canada that is responsible for these issues pertaining to DVDs. Apparently, if they release 2 versions (one mis-framed and the other to-be-corrected), then it is but obvious that they have "duped" the customers... I tried calling their 1-800 # but to no use. No one even bothers to answer on that number !..
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rana
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:10 pm 
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Moved from above, for Ali.

Thanks.


ali wrote:
rana wrote:
1) Where does it say that T2 was shot with an AR of 2.35:1. What was the actual picture capture AR??

It doesn't! This is how the film was shot;

Image

..with a AR of ~1.60:1 – the above is actual film frame.

BUT it’s intended, in mind, how it was meant to be displayed was @ 2.35:1 – I believe when they shoot scenes they can actually see the 2.35:1 frame outlined on monitors and cameras.

To get the 4:3 version of T2 is bit more complex as it a mixture of the original shot @ 1.60 and the widescreen 2.35:1 zoomed and pan and scan to 4:3. This is because all the special effects were done in the 2.1:1 frame – they were never done to the shot/full original 1.60:1 frame. So as Sanjay says there’s always only one original true aspect ratio for T2 – that’s at 2.35:1.

Ali
ps be my guest to post the link to where ever you want!

Ali, you are the expert in Graphics. What about picking a 2.35:1 picture out of the 1.6:1 AR picture that you provided. I think Matting is set constant throughout the film and hence most likely would be the same amount at the top and at the bottom. Let's see what do we get in a 2.35:1 frame.

Thanks.

Rana



Edited By rana on 1043237541
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ali
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:13 pm 
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You mean like this;

Image

..have you actually read the site where these images are coming from?

Ali
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rana
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 2:38 pm 
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Thanks Ali for the clarification.

I had scanned through that link, but didn't read all the way down, where this pic was explained. Anyway, is it common for the Super 35 shoot to keep the top of the frame and the bottom portion is not included in the 2.35:1 frame?? I was under the impression that they pick the middle portion of the frame and discard the top and bottom portion of the picture equally.

In the case of the BTTF, when they picked the top of the frame for the widescreen DVD, people are complaining (topic of this thread)??

Rana
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ali
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 4:39 pm 
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They don't have to pick the top part of the frame. Depending on scene, take, frame - the framing is altered - it's not fixed throughout. Technology is there to be able to frame a film properly without fixing to a set point throughout.

On the frame shown it just happens that more bottom than top was masked off. On another scene it might be opposite. All is left to director's integrity.

Ali
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rana
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 5:01 pm 
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ali wrote:
They don't have to pick the top part of the frame. Depending on scene, take, frame - the framing is altered - it's not fixed throughout. Technology is there to be able to frame a film properly without fixing to a set point throughout.

On the frame shown it just happens that more bottom than top was masked off. On another scene it might be opposite. All is left to director's integrity.

Ali

This makes sense. So, no matter what AR they have to choose, they can and they do PAN & SCAN. Be it "vertically Up and Down" or "horizontally Left and Right" or Both.

At the time of shooting the cinematographer/ director may or may not have a certain AR or a certain part of the frame in mind. At the final assembly table, they pick the composition of a frame. Un-argueably, most important consideration is given to the AR that the film is being made for. It could be 1.85:1 or 2.35:1 or any other. Frames are composed for the theatrical release as that is the Immediate release. Most often that is where the money is although it is changing fast.

Now, what about this scenario that their goal is say 1.85:1 for widescreen TV or for 1.33:1 TV instead of 2.35:1 theatrical release. Definitely, they will compose the frame differently. Frames have to be composed for the desired AR and optimized for this AR.

What I am saying is that out of the same raw shot, Director will pick a different portion of the picture for different Aspect Ratio version. We can't say that one composition is wrong and the other is right.

Main thing is it should be Director's pick and he should pick different AR compositions with equal effort.

Rana



Edited By rana on 1043254998
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 5:18 pm 
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director's pick should be our pick! as director is always right!hmm
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rana
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 5:21 pm 
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Main thing is, it should be Director's pick and he should pick different AR compositions with equal effort.

Rana
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DragunR2
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 6:13 pm 
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rana wrote:
What I am saying is that out of the same raw shot, Director will pick a different portion of the picture for different Aspect Ratio version. We can't say that one composition is wrong and the other is right.

But we can say that the theatrical composition is the right one. The monitors and viewfinders are marked so that whether the 2.35:1 frame is at the top or middle of the 1.37:1 frame, the director and DP can frame properly. James Cameron is different from most directors in that he supervises the open matte transfers of his films, but there is little doubt that he frames for theatrical AR.
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rana
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 9:03 pm 
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One advantage of the Open Matte transfer for DVD is that the infamous Film Splice will not appear.

Why don't they involve the Directors, if still alive, for the DVDs??

Rana
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DragunR2
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 9:25 pm 
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rana wrote:
One advantage of the Open Matte transfer for DVD is that the infamous Film Splice will not appear.

Why don't they involve the Directors, if still alive, for the DVDs??

Rana

DVDs of important films or of big name directors are probably approved or supervised by the director or DP. I doubt the director of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was supervising the transfer of that film to DVD :)

Criterion has director and DP input frequently, if available, but even then errors occur. Criterion's Chasing Amy disc has a few misframed shots, such as the shot where Ben Affleck and Jason Lee are at the bus station (or train station or something). It's a fairly wide shot, but the tops of their heads are cut off. Typically this is not done in wide shots. I'm sure if you search Home Theater Forum you will find many posts on this particular case.

But I don't understand how splices don't appear on an open matte transfer, since the top and bottom of the frame are typically matted out, unless it is a special shot where the widescreen frame is at the top of the 1.37:1 frame.
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urbanlegend
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:58 am 
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SKNath,

Sorry I dont have any contact info for Canada.

Check this out, I found over at the DVDFile.com Forum:

====================
Official statement on technical framing issue on the Back to the Future Trilogy:

Below is a statement from Universal Studios Home Video regarding the "Back to the Future Trilogy."

Universal Studios Home Video is aware of a minor technical framing issue on the "Back to the Future Trilogy" widescreen DVDs. The framing appears differently from the laserdisc releases for approximately two minutes during "Back to the Future II" and four minutes during "Back to the Future III." The framing difference is unnoticeable to widescreen DVD viewers and does not detract from or interrupt the viewing experience. Consumers with further questions can call (888) 703-0010.
====================

Looks like Universal is trying to back out. Some people at the forum looks like are starting to double think about sending the discs in the mail as they could get lost or when the discs come back they are loose in an envelope and end up getting scratched.



Edited By urbanlegend on 1043319522
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sknath
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 3:58 pm 
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UL from the same thread :-

Quote by Buffalobill :-

I shipped mine back Tuesday. Even though they are now providing prepaid mailers to send them back if they get lost in the mail you have no proof that you actually sent them. You can't put delivery confirmation or insurance on a prepaid mailer. I sent them back 1st class with delivery confirmation (only set me back $1.61). I waited this long for BTTF & I'll be damned if I'm not going to get the best possible copies of all 3 movies. I can live without 'em for a month.
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sknath
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:06 pm 
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UL call them up ! ....
A lady picks up the fone line "Universal DVD returns info line"

She asks for my Postal code.... and then she goes

"I'm sorry we are unable to process DVD returns for this product"...

Hmm if that is the case then only one option left...
Will have to send the DVD's to moi friends in the USA and ask them to send them and get a replacement ! (I think the main point is to get the pre-paid mailers).... Call them up and you will also find the same reply !
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urbanlegend
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:07 pm 
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SKNath,

Yeah I saw that post later as well after I posted here at zulm. Personally dont really care too much as I never watched this movie in the theatre, only on vhs f/s. There is no p/s, if there is it doesnt make me sea sick :;): I am happy with what I have, hey at least the movie released on DVD. Good luck and power to you with your exchange.
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