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I am not Shah Rukh Khan. I need scripts. I need characters" - Pankaj Kapur Click here to add this article to My Clips
alla Bol is a negligible film. Yet, Pankaj Kapur manages to tower over it. MINTTY TEJPAL talks to the man who's played some of Hindi cinema's most distinct characters
You've had 20 successful years on TV. Office, Office, Karamchand. How did you do it?
By God's grace. In 1985 when I was offered Karamchand, I initially refused. I thought, "who wants to do TV?" But I realised I had no money, so I said "Okay, let me have a look."
Who gave the character all the nuances we all grew to love?
Barring the carrot, it's all me. Pankaj Parashar suggested the carrot. Many things I suggested were also incorporated, like the office Karamchand had, which looked like a tiny garage. I said, let's not get into this "smart spy" thing because James Bond has already been there. My idea was that somebody who is a genius may not necessarily look like a genius. I believe Einstein went to attend a conference somewhere and the person who was to receive him had his own idea of what a genius looked like. Einstein just kept standing there. So we dressed Karamchand in a way that would turn no heads. We went to Colaba to buy those goggles, which later became "Karamchand goggles". That's the kind of popularity the series had. Of course, there was only one channel then.
There was limited television penetration.
Yes, it was still developing. One journalist said to me, "You don't behave the way you do in Karamchand." That used to be the perception of acting - that you play yourself, because most of our actors were playing themselves. After three episodes, there were calls saying, could you ask this guy to stop scratching his head. Or, could you dress him up better? Even the sponsors sent in letters, but I told Pankaj I would walk out. We could not suddenly dress up the character. The audience changed its mind after a few episodes. Now the quirks they objected to are the things people remember.
By this time you had shifted to Mumbai. You were single and broke and struggling.
Well, married and about to be separated. My family had left and I was alone trying to fend for myself and yes, there was no money. Later, my sister and brother-in-law shifted to Mumbai. I stayed with them for about three years.
Did your divorce affect your work?
No. And I don't want to discuss the personal.
What was your turning point in cinema?
I had a secure life in Delhi theatre; I drew a salary. But in 1981, I was thrown out of the National School of Drama because I acted in the film Gandhi. They had given me permission, but halfway through, they asked me to stop. Richard Attenborough was extremely upset and paid me Rs 10,000 extra since I'd been thrown out. After this, I was unemployed. Om Puri, who is a dear friend, asked me to meet Shyam Benegal. I got my first role in Arohan. After that I went back to Delhi and started working in theatre again. I came back and did a play called Ek Ruka Hua Faisla and suddenly Bakus Chatterjee wanted to turn it into a film. Jaane Bhi do Yaaro happened. By the time Vidhu Vinod Chopra's Khamosh happened, I'd moved permanently to Mumbai.
Tell us about Jaane Bhi Do Yaaro.
Everything that could possibly go wrong went wrong. On the first day of the shoot, there were no clothes and no make-up for me. I was a 29-year-old playing a 45-year-old. I went with Renu Saluja to buy a pair of specs to age myself. One day I went with Kundan on a location hunt and we went by bus to China Creek and it was hot as hell. After roaming for hours, I wondered if I could get a glass of water. When Kundan said, "We have worked so hard, we deserve at least a cold drink each," I could barely believe it. There was no budget. We were all trying to manage with whatever was available. The cameraman went to sleep at the camera from tiredness. The lights conked off due to fluctuations. We used to work like this: whoever gets time, goes to sleep. Okay, your shot has come, fres hen up, give your shot and go back to sleep. Kundan wanted to cancel the project, but Sudhir Mishra and I resisted. It was the spirit of the times. Everybody wanted to "do some good work".
Where did the script's madness come from?
From Kundan. We also had some excellent dialogue writing. But I'll be honest. There were times when some of us said, what is this shit? What are we doing? Is this going to work? Years later, it became a cult film.
What would you count as your three best performances in cinema?
I'd say Ek Doctor ki Maut, Maqbool, Dharam, The Blue Umbrella. I enjoyed Dus too. In television, Neem ka Ped and Neetu-Noni.
Tell us a bit about Office Office. It's repetitive, yet addictive. What is the magic?
I think it has to do with the audience. The guy watching is actually laughing at himself. He is saying, "You were made a fool but it has happened to me too." This is what works. Ashwini Dhir must be credited for the concept. Rajiv Mehra made it slick. The actors were priceless. After about 50 episodes, we used to finish an episode in one shift simply because everybody knew their characters backwards.
There is a new energy in Hindi cinema today. Has audience taste shifted radically?
When a 10-year-old child who can use the internet can see a film made in Hollywood or in Europe, he will say, 'why can't I have this in my country?' I think youngsters are more responsible for this movement than the intelligentsia. I imagine the youngster saying, 'My generation doesn't belong to this, show me something else.' Which is why the whole multiplex culture also caters largely to the youngster.
Is good cinema good story-telling or good entertainment?
I have always said, a large section of our cinema for a very long time, especially from the 70s to the 90s, became like the annual day function of a school or college (laughs). There should be two songs, one skit, one dance number, one comedian, one serious mother-son relationship. But story-telling is a totally different thing. We have to do 'selective realism'. We need to be original, create something from our own culture. I always say, if you keep looking towards the west, you'll never see the sunrise.
Can you give an example where you added to a character and the director agreed?
See in Maqbool we worked out every little detail. When the script came to me, one of the things I mentioned to Vishal was, look, we are talking about this guy as a powerhouse, as somebody people are scared of, but there is no scene where we see a glimpse of his ferociousness. Vishal wrote the paan-stuffing scene after this discussion. My point was that for one second, we should be able to see that Abbaji was a guy who could kill for a lark.
In the last 5 - 7 years, give me the names of some Indian films you have liked.
Lagaan. Rang De Basanti. Dil Chahta Hai. Recently, Taare Zameen Par. Strangely all of them have Aamir Khan. I liked Dharam of which I was a part. Then I really liked the Munnabhai series. Hera Pheri was also good fun.
You are said to be a very picky actor.
I am. It may be my strength or weakness. I cannot work without a script. I never have. I need a clear outline of character. It was very difficult in the early years when I was given small story outlines and even smaller outlines of character. I kept refusing till I got a script I could make head or tail of. It is a weakness. There are actors who do a wonderful job with minimal information. The difference is most of them almost always play themselves. I say Pankaj Kapur is not charming or interesting enough for my audience to say we're okay with seeing him in every role. I am not a Shah Rukh Khan or a Rajesh Khanna.
Are you still absolutely brutal with scripts?
Absolutely. But I will be very honest with you, at the back of my mind, because I am a middle class man, survival always calls. If I am saying no to too many things, a call comes from with in. I mean I don't have bank balances and all, yaar, I am living day to day. The fact is I live on what I earn. I don't have savings to see me through 20 years. At the most, some months.
You are now planning to direct a film?
Yes, I am trying to write a love story starring Shahid. I am nervous.
Shahid seems to have made a breakthrough.
It's wonderful. He is really just a young boy. At 26, such a mature head is rare. He wants to create a balance between being a star and being known as an actor. Jab We Met, sort of set a platform for that. Shahid has all the basic qualities of a good actor - body language, brains, sensitivity, a sense of humour. And destiny is on his side. Since two of his films have become superhits at such a young age, he's in a position to choose his films. He also doesn't work without a script. He waited seven months after Vivah before deciding on Jab We Met. He didn't have the authorbacked role Kareena had, but I think his instincts worked.
Does Shahid discuss his projects with you?
Yes, he mentions them to me.
And you use your knowledge of the industry..
His knowledge is so much more than mine. I have always been at the periphery.
Oh, is it. Let me reverse the question. Do you use his knowledge to decide your projects?
(Laughs) Yes, I do. Specially his business sense. I am amazed at his understanding of how the industry works.
How do you rate Shahid as an actor ?
In his first film, Ishq Vishq, I could smell a few moments. They got more substantial in Fida. In Jab We Met, he made me feel proud. I thought, 'Waa, he is on the right track. Just needs a bit of exposure to the right people, that's all.'
If I ask you to describe Shahid in five words, what comes to mind ?
(Laughs) Young. Handsome. Intelligent. Amazingly considerate towards everybody. Amazingly considerate. And - I get very emotional about this - the kind of maturity he has at this age, the way he has handled himself, hats off.
Is cinema and acting his entire life too ?
His entire life. Sometimes Supriya laughs about how he and I are so similar. I sometimes feel scared for him, because these things have caused problems for me. But times have changed, so I think it'll work out for him.
What next after Halla Bol ?
An Indo-American venture called Good Sharma. I have nothing else on my plate now. I haven't worked for about 6 months now, which worries me a bit.
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