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rana
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:06 pm 
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No body believed 'Habshi', at the time. Let's see how many of us see any merrit to his claim about excellent prints for the SD movies that Habshi named.

http://www.zulm.net/of/showthread.php?threadid=1414

I am a convert.

This thread is a good source where a few good PQ (Progressive) DVD titles, that were once SD, are mentioned.

Rana
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 10:40 pm 
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BTW!! who did old, heer ranjha!! raj kumar one?
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congress
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 2:08 pm 
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and they are full screen so you get the full emotional impact of the movie as the director wanted it

Thanks for reminding me... :angry:
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rana
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 2:41 pm 
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congress wrote:
and they are full screen so you get the full emotional impact of the movie as the director wanted it

Thanks for reminding me...

Congress, we are talking of the very first Indian Film DVDs. Indian DVD makers and even Hollywood DVD makers had not progressed to Anamorphic DVDs. Even DEI-EROS DVDs from that time, and till much later, were all cropped to 1.85:1.

There aren't too many of them from SD that were Progressive. Just about 30 - 40 of them. The newer batches of the same film DVDs are not progressive any more. I have been acquiring these hard to find DVDs, from the original batches, recently. Remember many screen shot comparisons by Arsh, from SD-VS vs VS-solo versions of Deewana Mastana, Yes Boss, Judaaii etc.

I would rather see a Pan & Scan Film DVD comared to 2.35:1, letterboxed in 4:3 frame, Video DVD.
I'm distinguishing Film vs Video as Film DVD having 24 frames per sec and Video DVD having 60 fields per sec.

Even 60 fields per sec Video DVDs don't incorporate 2-3 pull down in the new releases. 60 Field Averaged Fields per sec is what we mostly get today. It's perfect for copying on to VHS in SLP, fitting 3 movies in one VHS instead of buying a DVD.

An example of Video DVD @ 60 fields per sec and incorporating 2-3 Pull Down is 1-2 Ka Four movie DVD.
An example of 60 Fields per sec Field Averaged, is Mujh Se Dosti Karoge.

Rana
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captainamerica
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 7:17 pm 
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Rana--------Don't know about congress but I got it the first time around :D lol
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rana
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:58 pm 
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captainamerica wrote:
Rana--------Don't know about congress but I got it the first time around :D lol

I can feel the sarcasm, Captain America.

In simple words, SD DVDs that Habshi liked and now I have liked them too, are Indian Film DVDs as opposed to Indian Video DVDs that are avail today. DEI/ BEI excepted.

Rana
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congress
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 2:16 am 
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Rana, we should never accept a dvd that was shot in 2.35:1 and cropped into 1.85 or worse 4:3 no matter if its proggressive or non progressive. As for the Yes Boss dvds, I think the Eros dvd has a much better source used than the SD dvd. I like it probably because of the colour saturation and sharpness while the SD dvd is too "orangy". Again I will say the source used in a dvd should be given more priority and then encoded "progessively". The Eros dvd on the other hand is a little too dark.

It has become a parochial trend on zulm to accept a progressive dvd without any regards to other factors of a quality dvd.

Image

Eros version

Image

Super Digital version
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sknath
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 5:40 am 
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congress wrote:
It has become a parochial trend on zulm to accept a progressive dvd without any regards to other factors of a quality dvd.

Image

Eros version

Image

Super Digital version

Yo Congress.... the first part of ur statement is valid... we should not accept any DVD that was made in 2.35:1 and subsequently cropped to 1.85:1 (or as yes boss was to 1.66:1)... Strictly prohibited

However... given a choice... I would anytime prefer a progressive DVD vis-a-vis an Interlaced or "pseudo-progressive" dvd (discussed ad-infinitum). Isnt it kinda stupid that we still have to hope for a progressive DVD when any DVD, transferred from a film should be presented in a film mode (a.ka progressive and not interlaced). I got a first hand knowledge if working with progressive and interlaced images this past week and I must tell you.... the results were quite startling !

Again the color settings on the DVD can be changed on ur TV / computer screen, so that shouldnt be a deterrent... The moot point is, observence of the so called "double-images" (ghosting)... They pull down the quality of a DVD, no matter how it was encoded or what source was used.

Your arguement will hold good if and only if you have a high end dvd system, which can remove the garbage frames and make the DVD print progressive and can then be subsequently displayed on your PROGRESSIVE TV ! (which is quite a long stretch anyways !)

Just a query, adding to what Arsh said earlier... Does anyone have any idea, who authored Heer Ranjha ?
Habshi was a ***** but his comments abt these DVDs were right on !



Edited By sknath on 1051767805
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congress
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 1:40 pm 
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sknath wrote:
congress wrote:
It has become a parochial trend on zulm to accept a progressive dvd without any regards to other factors of a quality dvd.

Image

Eros version

Image

Super Digital version

Yo Congress.... the first part of ur statement is valid... we should not accept any DVD that was made in 2.35:1 and subsequently cropped to 1.85:1 (or as yes boss was to 1.66:1)... Strictly prohibited

However... given a choice... I would anytime prefer a progressive DVD vis-a-vis an Interlaced or "pseudo-progressive" dvd (discussed ad-infinitum). Isnt it kinda stupid that we still have to hope for a progressive DVD when any DVD, transferred from a film should be presented in a film mode (a.ka progressive and not interlaced). I got a first hand knowledge if working with progressive and interlaced images this past week and I must tell you.... the results were quite startling !

Again the color settings on the DVD can be changed on ur TV / computer screen, so that shouldnt be a deterrent... The moot point is, observence of the so called "double-images" (ghosting)... They pull down the quality of a DVD, no matter how it was encoded or what source was used.

Your arguement will hold good if and only if you have a high end dvd system, which can remove the garbage frames and make the DVD print progressive and can then be subsequently displayed on your PROGRESSIVE TV ! (which is quite a long stretch anyways !)

Just a query, adding to what Arsh said earlier... Does anyone have any idea, who authored Heer Ranjha ?
Habshi was a ***** but his comments abt these DVDs were right on !

SKnath, of course "progressive" is the way to go...I have never denied that but I consider the source print the most important element of a good dvd(and 5.1 sound). After all the source print is the actual determinant of correct color balance, black level, white level, detail and video noise level on the picture. What is the point of a "progressive dvd" with contrasty picture? And in any case I will consider interlace scanning as perceptual coding. Of course it is not good but even the most discerning viewer is not going to notice that.
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captainamerica
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 1:57 pm 
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Oh hush Rana there was no sarcasm intended. i was merely responding to your doulble postings which you eventually corrected. Just shrug the feelings off man :D
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rana
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 2:00 pm 
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Congress, you got a lucky break with YES BOSS. I admit this and one more EROS release of old SD title has plus points as compared to SD version. But, SD versions of the same films have plus points too. Still EROS version is not Progressive. Even if anamorphic, I prefer the Progressive pic. EROS YES BOSS is very good too. Specially for its Audio. I know of some who have both versions. SD for its PQ and EROS version for its Audio.

But for others that Habshi mentioned, SD versions are my choice prints.

I came across this old thread searching for something else. For the past few months I and my friend had been searching and collecting these rare VS-SD DVDs. Most important step in getting these DVDs was to know, which title was possibly progressive. I expected to get that from this thread and from the Old Forum thread.

Out of expected 30 - 40 such titles, I already got about 25. I'm still on the lookout for VIRAASAT, KHAMOSHI and a few others.

Now, I found a new name: HEER RANJHA, that too may be Progressive.

Rana



Edited By rana on 1051797681
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rana
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 2:07 pm 
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captainamerica wrote:
Oh hush Rana there was no sarcasm intended. i was merely responding to your doulble postings which you eventually corrected. Just shrug the feelings off man :D

Sorry, CaptainAmerica that I misunderstood you, then. There were no hard feelings any way. And you did have a valid point. What I wrote was not too straightforward either.

I never saw that double post. Actually, when I was trying to post it, it wasn't working for me (because of net problems). I tried a few times and never knew, that it got posted even once. Finally I saved the text in a word doc and later when I wanted to try again after a few hours, I found my posting already in. :O

Rana
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rana
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 2:16 pm 
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congress wrote:
What is the point of a "progressive dvd" with contrasty picture? And in any case I will consider interlace scanning as perceptual coding. Of course it is not good but even the most discerning viewer is not going to notice that.

Agreed; "even the most discerning viewer is not going to notice that."

Except for those who have seen Progressive Picture once. They will never want to see the same picture interlaced, unless they want to have a headache.

Believe me, Progressive pic is addictive.

Rana
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 3:32 pm 
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Ok, let me add my two cents too.. here!!

I have 3 versions of yes boss, SD(prog), VS(Pseudo prog with pseudo sound, courtesy media dimension), and EROS, interlaced, anamorphic, widescreen, with 4 channel, sound..

NONE is PERFECT! ALL VERSIONS, COMPROMISED!

I wont even talk, about MD version..

SD prog, is CROPPED and CROPPING used to be ORDER OF THE DAY those days!!including DEI, doing same crime!

Now, BEI learned their lesson, and decided to enhance, widescreen films not CROP...

SD, YES BOSS is cropped in a way, kissi ka haath nahin, tou kissi ka kaan, nahin..

Being in film mode, transfered, picture is smooth, flicker free, glossy...pleasing texture overall, sound is 2 channel, or mono, with no sub titles.., minus is COLOR balance, after cropping, ALL SD older titles, except, I think, VIRASAT, are very BAD COLOUR BALANCED!! I dont like that, my self..

EROS, YES BOSS, is interlaced, and perhaps, will be BEST for ones, who watch on SMALL TUBE TV, with INTERLACED DVD or VCR, it has fuller picture, looks great on Widescreen tv also, it fills my 64 inches....
Except, it flickers like hell, in motion scenes, with Prog scan players..

The colors are to die for, very rich, just like Shemaroo, always, do, as it is authored by Shemaroo..Sound, the way, they have done 4 channel, kinda dolby surround, I liked that too..It does have Sub titles too..

Now, my BOTOM LINE..For Ametures and people with sub optimal systems, EROS version, will be more colorfull, complete, and better, fuller sound, EXCEPT, one with STD AR TV, it will have HUGE black bars, top and bottom..


For PEOPLE, who have STD, TV with non interlaced players, I'll recomend, REVISED version, by MEDIA DIMENSION, PSEUDO 5.1 sound, and CROPPED TO FILL your DISPLAY...Flicker, u wont see, with this system? If u hate BLACK BARS, this is FOR YOUR EYES only..make sure, u dont get SELF DESTRUCTIVE version, courtesy MD and VS!!BEWARE..

For the CHOOSY ONES, who watch on PC and PROG systems,

and can compromise with CROPPING, for flicker free picture, SD, orig, OUT OF PRINT, PROG, version, with 2 channel, sound, with no SUbs is more FULL FILLING..

For me, I have GOOD SYSTEM, GOOD Eyes, GOOD ears, and LOVE, anamorphic widescreen, with GOOD COLORS, so, I HAVE ALL 3, TRYING, to get BEST of all worlds!!

EROS version, is EXTREMELY hard to find, and YES BOSS etc, rights, are again, RE SOLD to ????? I dont know?



Edited By arsh on 1051814119
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sknath
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 4:53 pm 
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arsh wrote:
EROS version, is EXTREMELY hard to find, and YES BOSS etc, rights, are again, RE SOLD to ????? I dont know?

Jolly Pls Advise :D
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