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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:11 pm 
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Man, again, I try never to read reviews before watching a film, but having read Taran Adarsh's comments, I figured I might as well check out a few others. Every critique of the film is horrible. Now, the "critics" have gotten it wrong, before...many times, and I can only hope that they've dropped the ball regarding Family, as well. Unfortunately, though, the lack-luster promotion of the film really does suggest to me that it might not be great. In any event, I'll find out in a few hours, and I'll post my thoughts here — fingers: crossed.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:10 pm 
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ali wrote:
Commando303 wrote:
Possible SPOILERS (Khakee):

You got to see a "censored" version of Khakee? In what way was it censored (also, what are you comparing it with to know that it was censored: the DVD?)?


It's been a while since I watched it at the cinema. The cuts were so blatant that you don’t need to watch it on DVD to figure them out (although I have seen the DVD version too). One main one stood out was the end fight scene - the fight starts and it suddenly ends a few seconds later. Other scenes were cut short in the middle jumping onto next - dramatic music playing which suddenly cut to a silence – list goes on. This was a subtitled print, so not sure if all cinemas in the UK showed the same version.

I know that Indian movie distributor in the UK have a bad habit of censoring works as they please – any one of them don’t like it or someone complains about a scene they’ll hack it off. Then it’s all about the money with them too – very rarely they’ll show an 18 certificate Indian movie in the cinema – Khakee on video (ie DVD) was 18 certificate, on film (ie cinema) it was 15, same with Lajja film was PG while on video it was 15. They cut it so that more people (traditionally family groups with children) can go watch it. So they chop and ruin the movie. No go for me :baaa:

Ali




i've stopped going to the cinema to watch bollywood films since Khakee that film was so badly cut that some sequences after the cut looked so out of place when i saw it on dvd it was perfect..eve though at the filcks it was given 15 i wasn't expecting any cuts but i guess the desi bastards sorry the distrubutors want to get as much moolah as possible by letting in anyone even in diapers to watch the film 8) 8) 8)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:54 am 
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watched it.. just got back.. all i can say its a pile of shit..

AB is underused... his voice has been dubbed and his role is SHIT!!! I mean how the heck can you use a voice double for Amitabhs voice.. i understand he was ill so couldnt do the dubbing, but WTF... He should stop doing action roles, he just doesnt fit the role one bit...

Akshay kumar is underused.. wtf is his role about.. just doesnt make sense..

Kadar Khan is underused.. i saw him the trailers and thought yeh man we get to see the great actor in his negative role again... again he is underused..

hell i`ll go as far as saying that bhumika is underused tooo........

the only character that is overexposed is that crap actor aryaman.... what the hell posessed RKS to place him in the movie i will never understand!!

From Khakee to This pile of shit.... Avoid like the plague!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:26 am 
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Just got back. OK, here's the skinny (possible SPOLIERS):

Parts of Family are great, truly great. Some scenes are absolutely terrific. For instance, Amitabh Bachchan amidst the "old dons," Bachchan at the police station (Vijay Chauhan, anyone?), Bhoomika Chawla's confrontation with Bachchan at the hospital — all are marvelously handled. Honestly, though, most of the scenes are above average. Even Akshay Kumar stuff (he's not in the movie for very long), though very different in feel from the rest of the movie, is enjoyable. Here, however, comes the film's most glaring issue: Kumar's scenes have absolutely nothing in common with the actual movie. This film has no fucking idea what it wants to be. The lighting, background score, color-saturation, cinematography, atmosphere...everything, could not be more different between scenes. Akshay Kumar's stuff is Karan Johar, whereas Amitabh Bachchan's is like Ram Gopal Varma. This might sound like kind of a neat concept, but, trust me, it's not. If you were to walk into the theater late, you'd likely be pleased, no matter where you walked in. After the scene changed, however, you'd think the projectionist slipped up, and put in a different movie. Post-intermission, things do settle, somewhat, but then the characterizations go all nutty. The whole angle of Aryeman's friends helping him catch Viren Sahai feels more like something out of a "Goonies-esque" adventure, than something from a serious drama. Kumar's pre-murder sequence (which happens to be a song), feels like something you'd expect in a "coming-of-age" film (e.g., Lakshya), before "the burden of responsibility hits the protagonist." Again, the song isn't bad, but it makes no sense in preceding what happens next, or in following what has just taken place. Hell, the film cues you to its ridiculousness right at the beginning, when, after the obligatory "spoiled kid gets in trouble scene" is followed by a "bawarchi" song that seems to belong in Shah Rukh Khan's Duplicate.

As far as performances are concerned, again, Akshay Kumar leaves the film pretty early. While he's around, he's Akshay Kumar; if you like him, you'll like him, if you don't, you might not. He gets one terribly uncharacteristic "hip-hoppy" musical number, and an action sequence. Speaking of the latter, it's amazing how it comes into play; it's as though, one moment, everything is perfectly fine and coherent, and the next — mid-scene — someone blows a whistle, and the fighting begins, as though, the moment of the fight had arrived, but the film hadn't quite managed to reach it, in its storyline.

Aryeman ranges from bad–OK. He's good with the action, but he doesn't have the histrionics to back up some of the emotional scenes. He just isn't a very good actor when it comes to sincere performance; it seems as though he's a novice, not quite sure what to do in front of the camera.

Bhoomika Chawla is good, but her role is small (what else might one expect from a gangster film, anyway?). Luckily, her scenes are allow her to turn in a consistent performance, so she ends up looking even better than she should.

There are plenty of guest stars, including some people from yester-year, whom you didn't even know were still around, in the industry: Kader Khan, Gulshan Grover, and Raza Murad all show their faces, only to be almost instantly forgotten.

As though being utterly erratic weren't enough, Family showcases a fair number of inexplicable moments, as well. Things happen just becuase they must, not because it makes sense for them to. Akshay Kumar's fight scene was one example. Another is the "item number" song sequence of Aryeman, and the other, of Akshay Kumar. Shit just happens. A board is amazingly on fire at a movie theater. Of course, a kid is fallen (and he can't get up) in the middle of a stampede of frightened people. Kumar's whole death sequence is about as "stock" as it gets (though the actual "death" is pretty cool [though even it incorporates gross over-kill, likely just to make Kumar out to be even more a tragic figure]). Aryeman and his porn-loving friends (complete with an over-weight guy, who reminds you of the over-weight kid from The Goonies [yes, another mention of it]), at times, are able to pull off shit that would make James Bond glow green with envy. How the hell are these "nau-sikhiyay kids" so adept at out-performing the most notorious gangster — and his army — in the universe?

OK, it's time: Amitabh Bachchan. He's great, but his characterization is poor. It's that simple. Honestly, some scenes are a delight to watch, simply because they seem to be straight out of Agneepath...I mean straight out of it. OK, so it's not so much the "scenes," as it is Bachchan. This actually makes one wonder, though: did Rajkumar Santoshi just stand there and say, "OK, now give me Vijay Chauhan...no, no: MORE VIJAY-CHAUHAN! PUT THE 'DINANATH' IN IT, MAN!"? Santoshi seems seriously bent on having it come off that way, and it actually works...at times. This is almost solely because Amitabh is still the greatest actor ever, and can pull off such a part (also, the "mood" is right, but then — again — individual "moods" are usually right, in this movie). Bachchan dresses like, talks like, and contorts his face like Vijay Dinanath Chauhan did, at the dawn of the 1990s. It's great, but there's a problem: Vijay Chauhan was a character; Viren Sahai is more a caricature. Barring Amitabh's performance, the film does little to round out Sahai. Every iota of emotion behind Sahai, is, at best, "implied." Not once do we actually get to see Sahai's heart; we don't even get a glimpse. Everything is "meant to be understood." After a point, this just transfers into laziness on the part of the production team. A lesser actor wouldn't even have been able to make you believe that there exists a heart in this don.

There's been some talk of Bachchan's inability to dub some of his lines. Well, it's true, and that's a huge problem. There are only two scenes in the film in which the lines are not dubbed, and you can tell, instantly, when they come up. You're immediately sucked out of the already-shaky plot, as you wonder why the hell Viren Sahai suddenly sounds like he's very far away, in a large, empty hall, somewhere. This isn't a "forgivable" problem. Family isn't a student film, wherein these things can be explained, then understood: it's a major motion picture. If the movie's not ready for release, it ought not to be released.

So, there it is. Family shines at parts, several parts, but the parts seem to be from vastly different films. It's like sub-par Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham meets sub-par Sarkar...starring two-dimensional Vijay Dinanath Chauhan...and Aryeman. It's very difficult to rate the film. Scene for scene, there's much variation, with an average of about 7/10. As a whole, however, the movie gets a 1/10–2/10. This is perhaps the best example, to date, of why a movie must be a movie, and not a montage of good moments.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:33 am 
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faddy wrote:
watched it.. just got back.. all i can say its a pile of shit..

AB is underused... his voice has been dubbed and his role is SHIT!!! I mean how the heck can you use a voice double for Amitabhs voice.. i understand he was ill so couldnt do the dubbing, but WTF... He should stop doing action roles, he just doesnt fit the role one bit...

Akshay kumar is underused.. wtf is his role about.. just doesnt make sense..

Kadar Khan is underused.. i saw him the trailers and thought yeh man we get to see the great actor in his negative role again... again he is underused..

hell i`ll go as far as saying that bhumika is underused tooo........

the only character that is overexposed is that crap actor aryaman.... what the hell posessed RKS to place him in the movie i will never understand!!

From Khakee to This pile of shit.... Avoid like the plague!!


What do you mean Amitabh Bachchan's voice was "dubbed"? It was dubbed by him. The two scenes that weren't dubbed, were in his voice, minus ADR (automated dialogue replacement). Faddy, man, what are you talking about? Bachchan didn't fit Viren Sahai? Who else in the entire industry fits the role of Viren Sahai? It exists as it does, only because of Amitabh Bachchan. I don't even think it was an "action role." Bachchan had no "action scenes"; at most, he held, and fired, guns. No running, no fighting. (Personally, I'd love to see him do more action films, in which he actually does "action.") Rajkumar Santoshi "used" Aryeman, because Aryeman is the producer's (Keshu's) son; he probably wouldn't have gotten the money to make the movie, if he hadn't cast the guy. I'm pretty sure than this is more Keshu's film than Santoshi's anyway; I'd like to imagine that Rajkumar Santoshi would never make trash like this on his own.

*I did think it was cool when Akshay Kumar's character makes fun of the name "Keshu."


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:55 am 
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dont know what version you saw but after the intermission Amitabh did not do the dubbing for his voice... it put me right of the film and i just lost complete interest.. the scene where all the dons are meeting, that was dubbed over by someone else NOT amitabh... the final scene in the cop shop even that was.. good idea for scenes but seriously no point without amitabhs dialogue execution... I HATE THE MOVIE.. you cant even compare this to Agneepath... its nothing but a pile of shit..


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:10 pm 
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yep... amitabh didnt dub the movie as i thought..

http://ww1.mid-day.com/hitlist/2006/january/128032.htm

CRAP MOVIE!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:25 pm 
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Commando303 wrote:
If the movie's not ready for release, it ought not to be released.


That says it all for me - from the sound of it, looks like a rush mashed job for all concerned. It doesn’t even sound like Rajkumar Santoshi put the movie together and has left it to a bunch of amateurs who are too concerned about recouping money back. Sad state of affair.

Ali


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:52 pm 
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ali wrote:
Commando303 wrote:
If the movie's not ready for release, it ought not to be released.


That says it all for me - from the sound of it, looks like a rush mashed job for all concerned. It doesn’t even sound like Rajkumar Santoshi put the movie together and has left it to a bunch of amateurs who are too concerned about recouping money back. Sad state of affair.

Ali


wait for dvd, by wankas Kria/Adlab etc..


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:01 pm 
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Faddy, it's likely, then, that we saw two different versions of the film. Mine most certainly had no one but Amitabh doing Amitabh's lines. That presented a problem in only two scenes, wherein you knew it's Amitabh who's speaking, but you could tell that they needed to have him do some ADR work. These two scenes appeared about 2/3 of the way through the film (Bachchan's on his cellular phone), and at the very end of the film (after the police-station climax, as he delivers the film's closing lines). Of course, Family is not Agneepath (nothing is), but Bachchan's character seems, at times, very similar to Vijay Chauhan. The police-station climax says it all ("main, kiya, usko lei ke gaya, mai"; "yeh, ab main kya karega?"). Also, I loved a few of the scenes, such as the one (flashback) wherein Viren Sahai visits his home, and news of his having killed Akshay airs on television. I also liked the part where he shoots down the car, in which is the shooter of his son.

Do you guys suppose that the DVD release will have Bachchan's "dubbing-work" done? On any quality film, it would (although, no quality film would have been theatrically released without the work's having been completed). Knowing the rushed-ass way that Indian films are released on DVD, however, I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a disc from which all of Bachchan's lines are missing, and silence just fills his dialogues. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:59 pm 
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I finally found a review of Family that I somewhat appreciate (taken from http://www.glamsham.com/movies/reviews/familytob.asp):

"Family ties, family sighs… family screams. This is a film that promises plenty of punches… and delivers quite a few, though not necessarily as and when you'd expect them.

Though certainly not among Rajkumar Santoshi's best (namely Ghayal, Ghatak , Damini and Lajja) Family comes up with a slyly scripted actioner (Shridhar Raghavan / Rajkumar Santoshi) that turns the tables on the crime perpetrators of the world.

What if the world's biggest gangster (and you know how big he gets if he's played by the Bachchan!) suddenly finds his match in a common man? Having committed the most horrific acts of international terrorism Viren Sahai (Amitabh Bachchan) discovers that his family is kidnapped. We know what the film's awesome villain doesn’t. His family is whisked away by young Aryan (debutant Aryeman) and his friends (reminiscent of Sunny Deol and the jing-bang in Santoshi's film Ghayal). Aryan has an axe to grind. His hero, his brother Shekhar (Akshay Kumar) is snuffed out in a brilliantly orchestrated car-park shoot-out. From there, the plot winds its way through a galloping pace. The narrative energy is undeniable. So's Santoshi's trademark mood of clenched tension that is scattered all over the film, though in no particular rhythm of expectancy.

The storytelling is often imbalanced. Santoshi's keeps jumping into a beehive of activities. This time he doesn't always emerge with a coherently designed pastiche of anger and catharsis. And though Abbas Ali Moghal's stunts are riveting they lack the electric immediacy of what we saw in Santoshi's Khakee.

Amitabh Bachchan in yet another towering performance rides the film's improbabilities and unnecessary jump cuts, creating what could comfortably be dubbed his most grey character ever.




The dubbing, though, leaves much to be desired. At places where the original soundtrack has been retained the Bachchan baritone is indecipherable. Elsewhere a mimic artiste has clumsily matched his original voice. But you cannot re-do Bachchan's baritone without undoing it… The uneven voice quality notwithstanding the narrative just swims the smoggy suburban skyline, creating a world as Shakespearean as it is contemporary in its moral murkiness. The end game where the gang-lord comes face to face with the harsh reality of his family life gone to waste is peerless.

Whether it's a twitch of his lips (conveying the movements of a man with a cigar even when the darned thing isn't in his mouth) or his anguished regret at having lost his family for a precious kingdom, Bachchan blows the screen apart. Akshay Kumar's lighter moments at the outset again show the hand of a director who knows how to get stars to look exciting on screen. For some strange reason, the supporting cast is not used to the optimum by the director. A talented actress like Shernaz Patel is completely wasted in the archetypal role of AB's morally upright wife.

There's a sense of hastened narration this time, not to be seen in the director's previous films. The frenetic pace often sacrifices the lucidity that one would expect in a Santoshi creation. The self-consciously peppy songs and over-emphasized background score (Ram Sampat) could have avoided being so predictable. And really… is the debutant hero Aryeman capable of shouldering the whole film on his broad but insipid shoulders?

Finally what you come away with is the Bachchan… once again towering above all as the vain and arrogant gang lord who learns a thing or two about family ties… the hard way."


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:34 pm 
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faddy wrote:
yep... amitabh didnt dub the movie as i thought..

http://ww1.mid-day.com/hitlist/2006/january/128032.htm

CRAP MOVIE!!


Most of what it says in there sounds like complete bullshit! As if they had to release the film at this time...........and when they postponed it in the first place, why didn't they postpone it a bit further?

I think I'll stick with the likes of Agneepath for now.................


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:26 pm 
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You know with thousand apologies, there are two kinda films these days..

Type 1: Since that atrocious Masti clicked, every other , more than other, happening or non happening films had the same story and theme...calling it sleezy comedies..

Type 2; To Orchestrate persona of Bachan Bhagwan, to show the best of him, not the best of his character..

I saw Amadeus the other day!!again, 3rd time..man what a performance by F Murray ABraham, being in Negative role, is tower inferno of performance, as a cray guy, and believe me, if this role will be given to AB he will assay it a la Black, larger than life and the rest of film will be shit!! either style, or sets, or big locales.

AB is a good actor, very capable, but films are being made to just cash on him, by his will or popular demand..I do not understand why? :roll: :cry: :?: :idea:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:56 am 
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arsh wrote:
AB is a good actor, very capable, but films are being made to just cash on him, by his will or popular demand..I do not understand why? :roll: :cry: :?: :idea:


I agree that the character must come before the actor. Amitabh Bachchan is the greatest actor ever, but he has to have an actual role to be appreciated. You can't construct a dumb-ass film around his "persona," and hope that his likeability and popularity will ensure box-office success. Ek Ajnabee is a great example of this: people won't watch a movie just because of Amitabh Bachchan (I will, but many won't). Personally, I think Black worked, and I greatly appreciated Bachchan's (and Rani Mukherjee's) work in it. Some people seem to chastise Amitabh for being "over-the-top/hammy," in it, but I feel that he made the character memorable by putting in an "extravagant" performance. It wasn't a very "subdued" role — at least, not for the first third of the story — and Bachchan brought his character passion and eccentricities to life with élan; I can't think of another Indian actor who could have played the role so well. (Also, let's not forget that anything Bachchan did was likely requested of him by director Sanjay Leela Bhansali. We can only see whether Bachchan adaquately did what was asked of him, or not [I think he did].)

I think, really, that it was "time" for Amitabh Bachchan to have some flops. It's just the way the industry works: He got a few hits (Black, Waqt, Bunty Aur Babli, Sarkar) and needed some (financial) failures (Viruddh, Dil Jo Bhi Kahey, Ek Ajnabee, Family) to balance the scale. Personally, I find Sarkar over-rated, and Viruddh the opposite. In any case, I hope his next (starring [not Kabhi Alvida Na Kehna or some other "guest-appearance" film]) release is not only great, but a box-office success. Here's to hoping that Babul is way better than Baghban, and that Eklavya is simply magnificient.


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 Post subject: AB's dubbing
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:01 pm 
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AB's voice is definitely not dubbed by him in the 2nd half...except for the sync sound the rest of the voice is not AB's which is why AB's character didnt come through like it should have.......I can't believe that people haven't realised that it isnt AB's voice......his performance really can't be judged considering how important a role his voice plays in setting up a character! Imagine how explosive it would have been had AB done the dubbing and santoshi did a major editing job on it and got a strong actor instead of aryaman......the movie wud have rocked but alas.......what we have now is a disjointed movie........what a letdown after khakee... :?


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