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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:14 pm 
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Muz wrote:
rana wrote:
I'm working on Sec By Sec differences in the 3 versions, Shemaroo DVD (182 - 185 min), YRF DVD (224 - 233 min) and Esquire VHS (228 - 228 min). I'll also add audio segments time, segments that are not in any of the video versions, to maximize film time that I've figured out so far.


Looking forwards to the comparison - I wish I had access to my VHS version also - but alas not for a while! Thanks for doing this!


Just finished comparing Part 1 only.

As it takes long time finding actual run time differences, I'll post comparison for the 3 parts separately in three posts.

Sec By Sec Run Time Differences in "Mera Naam Joker - Part 1:
( Esquire VHS, YRF DVD, Shemaroo DVD )

YRF version and Esq VHS version are almost same content (Esq VHS has a total of 67 sec that's not in YRF DVD and YRF DVD has one 13 sec segment that's not in Esq VHS).

Shemaroo (61 min 15 sec video or film) is badly butchered. Even the Teetar song is almost half cut including prelude to it that's totally missing (3 min 35 sec). Titles are cut by 1 min. In the beginning, guests (Padmini, Rajender, Simi, Manoj, Russian actress etc) arriving at the circus and Dharmender announcing that no one knows how and where Joker had been, was happy or misserable, was rich or poor, etc, is missing (3 min) . Troupe on vaccation and Raju waiting till Raju carrying luggage for Manoj -- cut by 2 min. In the end, the very end footage is missing as well (1 min).

YRF (68 min 46 sec Video = 71 min 26 sec Film) & Esq VHS (72 min 21 sec Video or Film) versions (72 min 38 sec using missing seg one to other):


(YRF vs VHS)

(0:00, 0:00) to (14:33, 15:08): Same film length. Heart crash point. (Actually, YRF has 14 sec extra as Russian Parade which is missing in VHS. But, in counting run time, it canceled with a bit longer CC in VHS)
(14:33, 15:08) to (16:04, 16:29): YRF is 13 sec longer. Simi enters class room.
(16:04, 16:29) to (20:30, 21:05): Same film length. Simi-Raju scene ends, Raju-Mom scene start.
(20:30, 21:05) to (36:10, 37:38): YRF is shorter by 10 sec. Dream end, Church scene start.
(36:10, 37:38) to (47:43, 50:12): YRF is shorter by 33 sec. Simi, Manoj in stone arch frame.
(47:43, 50:12) to (56:56, 60:30/ 59:95): YRF is shorter by 6 sec. Joker (Two time readings for VHS to account for 35 sec blank)
(56:56, 60:30/ 59:95) to (68:46, 72:56/ 72:21): YRF is shorter by 16 sec. First Intermission Ends. (Two time readings for VHS to account for 35 sec blank).

VHS 72:21 plus 13 sec from YRF = 72 min 34 sec.
YRF 68:46 X 1.04 plus (65 X 1.04) sec from VHS = 72 min 38 sec.


Last edited by rana on Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:28 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:52 pm 
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Thanks for all this informative , research and hard work! 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:16 am 
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Finished Part One comparison above and was struggling with start of Part Two, first five minutes. Initially could not figure out why the title song in YRF version is one min shorter than in VHS even though all lyrics are the same in both versions. Finally realized that some stanzas that are supposed to be repeated, are not repeated in YRF version.
Also, from begininig of Part Two to start of MNJ title song fast music, YRF version is cut by 33 sec.
So, first five min and already a diff of 100 sec. And then there is another 75 sec of this song that audio exists but is not in any video version (ref earlier post)

So far: YRF that is 233 min (film time) and over 4 min identified in first 75 min (accounted run time 237 min; will increase further; just another 18 min to find to make up 4hrs 15 min run time as per footage indicated in CC).

To Continue.....


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:54 am 
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This is so interesting! Thanks Rana for going to these efforts. I do know that the Esquire release on VHS was shorter than another version that my Dad had on VHS (when you get to part three I think that this will start showing big time then). I do remember that he edited together his previous version and the Esquire version to try to get a complete movie.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:17 pm 
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Found a few more 20-30 sec segments and a big 4 min chunk that's missing in Part 2 YRF.
This also implies that YRF DVD will have lot of footage that's not in my VHS. Thus, I expect to count up all of 4 hrs and 15 min. So far, have accounted 4 hrs and 5 min.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:00 pm 
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Quote:
BTW, in earlier posts I had mentioned that Shemaroo Mera Naam Joker DVD is Pseudo-Prog (Film to NTSC) for part 1 and 2 and is Field Averaged (Film to PAL to NTSC) in part 3.
But actually, Pseudo Prog transfer ends at 98 min mark, where Raju says Da Da to his mom, for Bahoo. After that it's all Field Averaged (Film to PAL to NTSC); 84 min video time 88 min film time.


Just finished comparing Part 2.

Sec By Sec Run Time Differences in "Mera Naam Joker - Part 2:
YRF DVD (81:02 video, 84:17 film), Esquire VHS (90 min 22 sec video or film), Shemaroo DVD (71 min 18 sec).
95 min 35 sec using missing seg one to other.
In the first half of part 2, YRF version is missing some segments that are in VHS.
In the 2nd half of part 2, YRF has extra scenes that are not in VHS.

Shemaroo (71 min 18 sec) is the shortest version of the three. All the scenes that are missing in YRF, as compared to VHS, are missing here as well. And, it doesn't have scenes that got added in YRF, 2nd half of part 2, that were not in VHS. It's also missing another 3-4 min here and there as well.

(YRF vs VHS)
Part Two starts with Rishi Kapoor and Mom leaving town in a Tonga.
Reset 72:56 on VHS to 00:00
(68:47, 0:00) to (69:20, 01:06): Fast music starts. YRF missing 31 sec. ("Joker Joker Joker Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha" scene is missing in YRF)
(69:20, 01:06) to (72:00, 04:55): Circus Flyer. YRF missing 60 sec. All the repeat stanzas, except last (Gam Jab Sataaye Seeti Bajaana) are missing in YRF.
(As I posted lyrics earlier, another 75 sec title song audio that I have is neither in YRF nor in VHS).
(72:00, 04:55) to (85:20, 20:44): till Lights Off when Raju in Lions' cage. YRF is 111 sec shorter (not in big chunks but a few sec here and there).
(85:20, 20:44) to (98:01, 34:00): music start - - -. No difference bet YRF & VHS :D
(98:01, 34:00) to ( 103:03, 39:20): Fat Joker scene start. YRF missing 5 sec.
( 103:03, 39:20) to (105:20, 42:12): music start. YRF missing 28 sec.
(105:20, 42:12) to (107:33, 44:30) End song with beat Tn Tn. No differece
VHS counter @ 44:32 reset to 00:00
(107:33, 00:00) to (111:47, 05:32): abrupt music. YRF missing 67 sec
(111:47, 05:32) to (118:27, 13:11) Scene transtion with rotating stars. YRF missing 42 sec
(118:27, 13:11) to (still 118:27, 17:16) Day To Day Circus rehersal etc and Phooka Pehalwan scene that's totally missing in YRF 240 sec.
Phooka Pehalwaan scene is important for the story as this is the only scene where Raju and Marina actually say "I LOVE YOU" to each other. Without this scene, it can be assumed that love was one sided only, Marina considering it just friendship. This scene shows love on both sides.
(still 118:27, 17:16) to (120:18, 19:11) No Difference
(120:18, 19:11) to (127:00, 25:50) YRF has 19 sec Extra
(127:00, 25:50) to (127:21, 25:50) YRF has 21 sec extra. YRF shows what's missing in VHS that Marina knocks on door, Mom is in pain and says Kaun Hai, Aa Jaao.
(127:21, 25:50) to (130:38, 28:37) Mom - Circus. YRF has 40 sec extra
(130:38, 28:37) to (130:42, 28:40) Mom - Guard. No Difference but both versions seem to be missing Mom trying to get in the circus and can't get the ticket as house full. Somehow stumbles into the guard. Guard takes her to Dara Singh. (In Shemaroo version scene starts at Mom with Dara Singh)
(130:42, 28:40) to (138:36, 36:53) Music, RK on duck cart. No Difference.
(138:36, 36:53) to (142:22, 40:35) YRF has 13 sec extra
(142:22, 40:35) to (144:45, still 40:35) YRF has 143 sec extra. Avail in YRF and missing in VHS is the Dharmendra - Raju conversation just before Raju-Marina good bye conversation. This scene is very important for two things. 1. Dharmender telling Raju that no one should see Joker's tears and hence Raju using Sun Glasses in meeting Marina in next scene and then in part 3 Jaane Kahan Gaye Woh Din song. 2. Raju telling Dharmender that he is quitting Circus and Dharmender saying that his heart says that Raju Joker for sure will come back one day, before he dies, for his last show. With this scene IN, suspense for tragedy deepens whether Raju will die or survive after the last show.
(144:45, still 40:35) to (149:49, 45:49) End of "end of Part 2". No Difference
---------------------------------
Total Film Time of Part 2, using segments one to other:
YRF (81:02 X 1.04) = 84:17
From VHS: 584 sec X 1.04 = 10:07
Audio segment in title song = 01:15
Total = 95:39
If can find clip where Mom trying to get into circus and it's house full, struggle/ pleading, it might be another min or so.
Then Total = 96 min 39 sec. for part 2.


Last edited by rana on Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:19 am, edited 14 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:43 pm 
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Thanks again - It's so cool that you are doing this and would hope that someday soon someone will release the full unedited version on DVD or Blu Ray (some hope eh???!) This is good reference material for DVD makers - hopefully Excel will take note and work on a full release for the Indian market at least!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:58 pm 
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Muz wrote:
Thanks again - It's so cool that you are doing this and would hope that someday soon someone will release the full unedited version on DVD or Blu Ray (some hope eh???!) This is good reference material for DVD makers - hopefully Excel will take note and work on a full release for the Indian market at least!


cut/paste segments from various, dvd/vhs and make blueray lol


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:12 pm 
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First of all, Rana bhai -- you are doing a fab job!
Fantastic!
Your devotion and passion -- great inspiration :-)
Thanks for everything!! Keep up the good work!!! Finish this and give us more! Really, dil maange more!!!

For Muz -- you'll be happy to know that Excel are tracking this thread and even though they may never be able to do this title, they have expressed that they would always hope to live up to the expectations fans have from Excel :-)

Ali, Urbanlegend -- great site -- :-)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:26 pm 
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My salute to rana too!! 8) We can not thank him enough for his time/efforts


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:36 pm 
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mera naam joker is a crap movie.. cant believe you guys have the time to nit pick at this movie!!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:58 pm 
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NewDeep wrote:
First of all, Rana bhai -- you are doing a fab job!
Fantastic!
Your devotion and passion -- great inspiration :-)
Thanks for everything!! Keep up the good work!!! Finish this and give us more! Really, dil maange more!!!

For Muz -- you'll be happy to know that Excel are tracking this thread and even though they may never be able to do this title, they have expressed that they would always hope to live up to the expectations fans have from Excel :-)

Ali, Urbanlegend -- great site -- :-)


I hope that never is not really never and they do manage to do the best possible with this movie. It's a fantastic movie!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:03 pm 
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Updated/ completed my post about Part 2.
Part 3 comparison coming up soon. Should be easier as preliminary quick check shows no additional segments in VHS. YRF has segments that are missing in VHS.

BTW, in the DEI days, one time I got to talk to Sandish. He said that DEI wanted to do M N J badly and pleaded with the rights holders. Didn't get it.
I think, someone else also posted, about DEI wanting to do M N J.

---------------------
Raj Kapoor never sold video rights of any of his films untill just a year or two before his death. He resisted all the pressure. So, obviously Esquire cassette was without the rights. Like lots of other VHSs. (Another incident is when I took Esquire VHS of Aarzoo for autographs. Ramanand Sagar signed but later told me that he never gave the video rights away).

Later Raj Kapoore sold the video rights when he needed money to finish his film (I think it was for financing Ram Teri Ganga Maili). Video rights were sold to TIME and VHSs were sold in set only. That TIME VHS of Mera Naam Joker may have some extra stuff ??


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:54 pm 
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Just finished comparing Part 3.

Sec By Sec Run Time Differences in "Mera Naam Joker - Part 3:
YRF DVD (74:24 video, 77:24 film), Esquire VHS (64:49 video or film), Shemaroo DVD ( ).
77 min 57 sec using missing seg one to other.
There is just 32 sec (here and there between 10 min and 45 min mark) that's in VHS and not in YRF.
YRF has lots of extra segments, including one and a half song, Heer Ranjha conversation turning into Raju Meena conversation and an important scene Raju Meena visiting old shack just before Fashion Show. Raju Meena visiting old Shack shows where Raju was when Jaane Kahan Gaye Woh Din song starts. Without that, we we wonder. Raju wearing Sun Glasses in this scene is same significant as Raju wearing Sun Glasses saying Good Bye to Marina in Part 2. And, why wearing Sun Glasses is explained in part two just before Marina Good Bye scene. This explainatory scene is only in YRF, Dharmendra telling Raju that no one should see Joker's tears.

Shemaroo ( -- min -- sec) is the shortest version of the three. Nothing extra that's not av in VHS or in YRF. Moreover, as the Shemaroo encoding in this part is Field Averaged, even the PQ advantage is not significant.

(YRF vs VHS)
Reset VHS to 00:00
(149:50, 0:00) to (160:04, 10:40): Dog jumping in ring. No Difference
(160:04, 10:40) to (175:12, 27:18 including 46 sec blank): Aag Na Lag Jaaye. YRF missing 6 sec.
(175:12, 27:18) to (179:43, 29:49): Aag Na Lag Jaaye song is half cut in VHS. YRF has 124 sec extra. :D
(179:43, 29:49) to (181:08, 31:18): Dog Bark YRF shorter by 11 sec
(181:08, 31:18) to ( 185:07, 35:27): Waah, Pink. No Difference
( 185:07, 35:27) to (186:08, 36:21): White-Pink, White-Train. YRF has 9 sec extra.
(186:08, 36:21) to (189:41, still 36:21): Kaate Na Kate Raina song VHS missing this segment 3 min 33 sec
(189:41, still 36:21) to (193:38, 40:42) Ranjheya YRF missing 14 sec
(193:38, 40:42) to (194:35, 40:46) Till Train end. This scene is Heer Ranjha conversation after the Heer song. It's totally missing in VHS. In YRF, there is abrupt scene change to Train, that's not Raj Kapoor style (smooth scene transitions seem to be RK style everywhere else in MNJ). Was this scene shortened ??
(194:35, 40:46) to (203:29, 50:03) No Difference
(203:29, 50:03) to (211:05, 55:18) Rajender Raju conv ends. YRF has 85 sec Extra
(211:05, 55:18) to (214:35, still 55:18) Raju takes Meena to their old shack.YRF has 210 sec extra. This scene missing in VHS. (A comment on significance of this scene is in the beginning of this post)
(214:35, 55:18) to (224:14, 65:24) Till End. No Difference :D
---------------------------------
Total Film Time of Part 2, using segments one to other:
YRF (74:24 X 1.04) = 77:24
From VHS: 31 sec X 1.04 = 00:32
Total = 77:56
As I mentioned in an earlier post, there is one stanza in "Jaane Kahan Gaye Woh Din" that I have seen in a Nitin Mukesh stage show video and should have been in the film. (Aprox 1 min 15 sec; check on p 3 of this thread, same # of lines in missing segment of title song, the audio is 75 sec. So, for same # of lines in Jaane Kahan Gaye Woh Din should be 75 sec or more as this song is slower than title song)
Also if can find if there is something missing between Heer Ranjha conversation to the next Train scene. Assume 20 sec.

Then Total = 79 min 30 sec for part 3.
-----------------------------
Also, just added one more comment in Part 2 comparison.
--------------
Summary and possible further material for extras, coming up in my next post.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:00 am 
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Total Film time accounted is as follows:

Using Existing YRF DVD and Esquire VHS:
Part 1 = 72:38
Part 2 = 94:24 (title song 75 sec audio not counted)
Part 3 = 77:56

Total 1,2,3 = 244 min 58 sec

Audio avail segments:
"Title song' = 1:15 (in Part 2)
"Jaane Kahan Gaye" song = 1:15 (in Part 3)

Total 1,2,3 Plus Audio segments = 247:28

ADD CORRECTION: 24 sec (nit picking, but if I count segments as small as 4 sec, I can't ignore this 24 sec correction. This comes from the fact that I should have been dividing by .96 and not multiply by 1.04)

Total 1,2,3 Plus Audio Plus Correction = 247:52

That is 4 hrs 7 min 52 sec Film Time.
A 4% speed up if using YRF DVD as main source, will result in 237:30 (3 hrs 57 min 30 sec) video time
------------------------------------
NewDeep wrote:
Really, dil maange more!!!


Thanks to Muz, NewDeep and zoran009 for the encouragement and sorry to have disappointed some.
faddy wrote:
mera naam joker is a crap movie.. cant believe you guys have the time to nit pick at this movie!!

M N J was a slow film and sure was ahead of it's time. But, on home video format a slow program is equally attractive. If you like the content, can watch in detail and if don't like, scan forward the segment you don't like or stop. Just like you can skip this thread if not interested in the topic. :lol:

Possible missing segments:

In Part 2, when Raju's mom finds out about Raju working in Circus, she goes to Circus and finds House Full. She struggles and pleads to get in. Guard comes in to resolve trouble. This scene is missing in all 3 versions that I have (YRF, Esquire, Shemaroo). I'm not 100% certain, but I faintly recall these events. This must be about 45 sec.

Does anyone know the name of the actor who was Pashtoon Guard in the Circus ?? I have seen him in many films but don't know his name. If that actor is still alive, I hope he is, can clarify if that scene where Raju's Mom is struggling to get in the Circus show, was in the film ??

In Part 3, Heer Ranjha conversation turning into Raju Meena conversation ends abruptly in YRF. In other sources, the whole scene is missing. If I guess, this transition to account for a min of 23 sec sec

Added Later, Copied from p 7:
rana wrote:
Muz, you did it.

You found the last of the missing portions that now makes the full 255 min orig Mera Naam Joker.

Congratulations and full credit to Muz.

Muz wrote:
mrbrat_Boy wrote:


0:00 to 1:00 - Dialogue where Raju speaks to Meena about the two roles that she will be playing on stage (this dialogue is not in the DVD!)
1:00 to 3:24 - Music (different to what was posted at Cooltoad) - this is more of an intro to the actual song rather than the seperate dance piece that is in the DVD

rana wrote:
I guess you are referring to classical piece @ cooltoad ?? This one is not the intro music to "Kaate Na/ Jo Main Aisa Janti" song but is for a segment that's much later in the film. It's the stage dance where Rajinder Kumar is in the audience.


Muz wrote:

The CD track is 11 minutes 17 seconds long. Breakdown as follows:

0:00 to 1:00 - Dialogue where Raju speaks to Meena about the two roles that she will be playing on stage (this dialogue is not in the DVD!)
1:00 to 3:24 - Music (different to what was posted at Cooltoad) - this is more of an intro to the actual song rather than the seperate dance piece that is in the DVD

3:25 to 4:29 - This is the intro music as in the DVD
4:30 to 5:30 - Jo main aisa jaanti ... (as in DVD)
5:30 to 6:44 - Kaate na katai raina start of Asha's part (as in DVD)
6:45 to 7:24 - Manna Dey sings 'Tumhare waadai ...' (as in DVD)
7:25 to 8:34 - Asha sings 'Chanda hasai aakaash mein ... followed by music (NOT in DVD)
8:35 to 9.12 - Manna Dey sings 'Guzar chukee hain yeh raat aadhi ...' (NOT in DVD)

9.13 to 10:00 - Asha sings 'Kahai shaam se jalta diya ...' and the song runs to the end if the DVD version (as in DVD)
10.01 - 11.17 - More dance music and Asha's alaap (NOT in DVD)

This last part is such an amazing composition - I wonder if it was ever filmed and chopped up later or if it was never filmed?

On another note - I now can see that the song Ang Lag Ja Balma is also pretty badly chopped up in the DVD!


New found: 0:00 to 3:24, 7:25 to 9:12, 10:01 to 11:17 = 6 min 16 sec (as it's from orig LP/ CD, there is no 4% speed shift)

Total MNJ Joker run time as identified by now = 249 min found earlier plus this 6 min 16 sec = 255 min.

I'll be interested in comparing "Ang Lag Ja" song as well.

rana wrote:
Muz wrote:
Hey - the song Ang lag ja balma is about 9 minutes 25 Seconds long (including a long musical intro). There is at least 1 extra verse and a lot of extra music in the song. Now that I am watching the DVD again the song seems really short (about 5 mins).


In YRF DVD, this song/ music sequence is 5 min 17 sec including intro music. That's 5 min 30 sec film time. CD run time is 9 min 25 sec, so we can add another 4 min to MNJ run time to 259 min.



Counting these, the new total run time becomes:
4 Hrs 19 min.

(There may be a bit more avail from "Ang Lag Jaa" audio ??) ---- 4 min

Compare this to YRF run time of 3Hrs 44 Min 14 sec video equiv to Film time of 3 Hrs 53 min 38 sec (1.04 vs 0.96 correction applied).

(Just need another 6 min to make up the CC indicated time of 4 Hrs 15 min.) - - - -- Found now.
---------------------------------
Another possibly missing scene: In the beginning of the film they show a Russian parade and when credits roll, they show a Circus Promoting Parade. As I recall from filmi news/ gossips of those times, Parley (MB ??), a big Indian Candy Company, at that time, sponsered that Bombay parade with lots of Parley signs. I don't remember whether I saw those signs in the opening credits parade, but they are not in the home video versions. There possibly could be a few scenes missing here.
----------------------------------
Possible EXTRAS:
1) Theatrical Trailer
YRF DVD cover lists "Original Theatrical Trailer" included in Extras. It is not. Has any one seen this trailer in any video ??

2) In Conversation with Manoj Kumar by Dharmesh Darshan:
Included in YRF DVD

3) Naval Stars Show -- Joker Sings
There was a 20 - 30 min B/W or color documentary "Naval Stars Show -- Joker Sings" that was made and shown in theatres to promote Mera Naam Joker (before M N J release). The Naval Stars Show was held for the welfare of Indian Navy (Officers or for Jawans or ??). Live music of course was by Shakar Jaikishan and their live orchestra. Master Of Ceremony sure must have been Ameen Sayani. Showing of the documentary was always heavily advertised to promote the film being shown in the theatre. It sure was a big draw. I don't remember if the documentary was in color or it was B/W. Color films were not that common yet. In that case, a documentary must have been B/W. I have a faint memory of that Naval Stars Show being held on an Indian Navy Ship ?? Or, at least the stage, in the documentary, looked as if the show is being held on a ship. I remember Raj Kapoor performing "Ae Bhaaii Jara Dekh Ke Chalo". I think, he actually sang this song too (not Manna Dey, the actual playback singer of this song). And that's why the title/ promoted as "Joker Sings". All were surprised how well Raj Kapoor sang this song.
Perhaps, this was the first stage show of this kind that was also filmed for a documentary ??

Does any one remember this documentary ?? If this documentary can be found, sure will make a great extra.

Quote:
Also mentioned in wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shankar-Jaikishan
S-J staged a show in Shanmukhanad Hall, Mumbai in 1970 under the aegis of the Indian Navy. In terms of attendance and grandeur, it remains unsurpassed to this day, thus providing a public seal of approval to their leading status in the industry.

------------------------
4) Ameen Sayani
Another great source of Extra Material could be an interview with Ameen Sayani. He was hand and glove in the RK camp and is a walking encylopidia on Hindi films.

-------------------------
5) Other
I saw a segment on TV (It's burried somewhere among my VHS tapes) after Raj Kaopoor passed away, where Randhir Kapoor talked about Raj Kapoor and M N J. I was really impressed how Randhir Kapoor seamlessly join edited various segments of "Ae Bhaaii Zara Dekh Ke Chalo" song.

-----------------------------
6) The Last Of The Living Legends by Simi
Simi made a documentary on Raj Kapoor, titled "The Last Of The Living Legends" (or a similar title). It was telecast just 2 weeks before Raj Kapoor died. I have seen one or two bits of this on TV many yrs ago without knowing where those clips originated. I'd love to see the whole documentary. Does any one have any info if it's avail on DVD, VHS, Youtube etc ?? Or, did anyone record it on VHS ?? It's a great documentary.

Google search does give a few links on that documentary but no audio/ video.

------------------------------------
imdb does list Raaj Kumar, Baby Farida (Farida Jalal) and I S Johar as uncredited cast. I always wondered if in the beginning of title song, it really was Raaj Kumar (in Sun Glasses). imdb listing confirms it. Right after that, as the lyrics begin, of course there is Baby Farida. I S Johar, I have never found in M N J. Has anyone recognized I S Johar in M N J ??
A possibility is that I S Johar could be in the B/W clips of the title song ?? But, if that's the case, then imdb could list many other big names too. Like Nargis.
Quote:

I might delete this summary as it's being posted on p5
SUMMARY:
Starting with YRF DVD of M N J, that's most complete, here I will identify 2 major segments that are avail in Esquire VHS (and missing in YRF) and how these scenes affect the story:

Part 1 and part 3, there is no major scene that's avail in VHS and is not in YRF.

In Part 2, the following are the major missing segments in YRF:

1) Title Song cut by 60 sec by omitting repeat stanzas. (Minor affect to flow of the tune)

2) Circus rehersals/ environment and Raju Marina friendship developing into love (107:33 to 118:27), missing is 350 sec (365 secd film time). One of the scenes (Phooka Pehelwaan) here is really important (90 sec) where Raju and Marina actually say to each other "I Love You". Without this scene viewer gets a different perception of the story. With this scene IN, both have fallen in love with each other. Without this scene, It's one sided affair, Marina just a friend and may not be in love.
If the intention is to show that both are in love, the remainder scenes, or at least some of them, are needed to show sympathy changing into friendship and then into love. Without that, it'll be illogical and odd to say "I love you" and Khwaja Ahmed Abbas would never write that way. When the film flopped and the blame went to Part 2, in a compulsion to shorten the film length, Raj Kapoor might have edited those scenes out but then he also took the "I love you" dialog out resulting in a slightly different variation of the plot.
------------------------------------------

After this point, YRF has extra footage that's not avail in Esquire VHS. Two of these are very important scenes. First being near the end of Part 2 where Raju says that he is quitting Circus and Dharminder says that he knows in his heart that one day, before his death, Raju Joker will come back for a last farewell show. This adds to anticipation of tragedy.
In the same scene, Dharminder also tells Raju that no one should see Joker's tears. This explains why Joker is wearaing Sun Glasses when he says Good Bye to Marina and then in the end of Part 3 Jaane Kahan Gaye Woh Din song.

Another important scene that's in YRF (and not in VHS) is Raju taking Meena to their old shack. This scene shows Meena's mindset/ character and also explains the environs of that "Jaane Kahan Gaye Woh Din" song.


Quote:
ADDED LATER (copied from p5):
brownboy05 wrote:
But which version or format would Rana watch now?, or would he have the patience to even watch MNJ again after this detailed comparison?


Good that you asked me. This is what I missed and should have included in my conclusions.

I sure will watch M N J again.
For the sake of watching as complete as possible a version of M N J, and keep it simple, I'll watch my VHS until Phooka Pehelwaan episode ends and then start from 118:27 time counter in YRF DVD. This way you miss about 20 sec , of what's avail by combining both sources.

A better option, but requires a little more switching, is to watch Part 1 on YRF, then switch to Esq VHS starting from about 1 min before the end of Part 1, untill the Phooka Pehelwaan episode ends and then back to YRF at 118:27 time counter. This way you loose about one min in minor scene transitions in part 1 but you get the advantage of skipping poor VHS quality for all but 50 min. And you get the Russian parade as well.

For better PQ option, can watch all of it on Shemaroo DVD but it's about 50 min shorter than YRF version, including some important scenes( like Teetar song half cut, abrupt scene ends and starts, many episodes, etc).
Quote:
I hope that one day someone may dig up that "Naval Star Show - Joker Sings" and include in a DVD as extras or release a DVD of its own. I hope this footage is not lost for ever.
(Later we found it on youtube; links on page 8 of this thread )


Last edited by rana on Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:41 pm, edited 15 times in total.

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