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rana
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2002 4:56 pm 
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Not So Sharp Prints
What’s the reason behind it??

There are DVDs like Mission Kashmir, Lagaan. Kaho Na Pyar Hai, with excellent PQ. There are prints like Gadar, Sur etc where the PQ is missing something. I wonder what it is?? I don’t think it is due to interlaced or progressive coding. For example, Deewana Mastana does have excellent sharpness and detail, although it is interlaced. Same goes for Shemaroo Awaara, Bobby, Prem Rog etc. The same PQ differences existed between the original professionally produced VHS movies (20 yrs ago) and later in the Basement produced VHS movies of a few yrs ago.

The difference is like the difference between a fluorescent lighted room and incandescent lighted room, with same wattage. Similarly, could it be that the sharp prints are the ones where proper light bulbs (arc type) are used in the Cine-tel projector and the dull prints are those where a low luminosity or incandescent bulb is used in Cine-tel?? Or, may be the picture sharpness keeps on going down in series of video tape copies of copies --- which are then used to make inferior DVDs??

I think the reason is the lighting used for Cine-tel. At one time I mentioned it to one of the VHS distributors. He knew the reason (he said he knew why) but laughed it off.

Any ideas??

Rana
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mhafner
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 10:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 8:14 pm
Posts: 1086
rana wrote:
Not So Sharp Prints
What?s the reason behind it??

There are DVDs like Mission Kashmir, Lagaan. Kaho Na Pyar Hai, with excellent PQ. There are prints like Gadar, Sur etc where the PQ is missing something. I wonder what it is?? I don?t think it is due to interlaced or progressive coding. For example, Deewana Mastana does have excellent sharpness and detail, although it is interlaced. Same goes for Shemaroo Awaara, Bobby, Prem Rog etc. The same PQ differences existed between the original professionally produced VHS movies (20 yrs ago) and later in the Basement produced VHS movies of a few yrs ago.

The difference is like the difference between a fluorescent lighted room and incandescent lighted room, with same wattage. Similarly, could it be that the sharp prints are the ones where proper light bulbs (arc type) are used in the Cine-tel projector and the dull prints are those where a low luminosity or incandescent bulb is used in Cine-tel?? Or, may be the picture sharpness keeps on going down in series of video tape copies of copies --- which are then used to make inferior DVDs??

I think the reason is the lighting used for Cine-tel. At one time I mentioned it to one of the VHS distributors. He knew the reason (he said he knew why) but laughed it off.

Any ideas??

Rana

Sharpness of the 35mm master depends on
- quality of camera and lenses
- dop/cameraman actually focusing properly (big issue with
Indian films)
- lab work, printing quality

Sharpness of DVD depends on
- film master
- quality of telecine
- video format (component or composite, analogue or digital)
- quality of MPEG encoder
- video processing applied (noise reduction, edge enhancement. brickwall filters...)

Indian DVDs usually are made from not very sharp film masters on outdated telecines, filtered to death and
encoded with bad quality MPEG encoders. :rolleyes:
MH
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rana
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:50 pm 
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Another DVD that I saw yesterday was Yeh Hai Jalwaa. This DVD too is interlaced like Sur and Gadar but the picture difference is like you see someone in day light (for YHJ) to seeing someone in a poorly lit (20 W incadenscent lamp) room (Sur and Gadar).

Rana



Edited By rana on 1035399103
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congress
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 12:21 pm 
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Location: Singapore
Also I bet Mission Kashmir used Panavision in some parts which explains why there no 'squeezing' at both left and right side of the picture and the sharpness.

I think although Indian cinematographers are getting better and better equipped, there still room for improvement in the lab work where the film is actually processed. Even good cinematography is gone to waste if the lab work is like Adlabs. Look what they did for Devdas.

Of course it helps if the cinematographer is from ISC. I have never seen an ISC cinematographer's film having any problems.
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rana
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 8:07 pm 
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Congress, I think you are reffering to film prints while I was reffering to their DVD copies. Of course, some problems begin at Film, but the darker and dull pic in some DVDs, I think, is due to dim or incandescent light bulbs used for Cine-tel projection??

Rana
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DragunR2
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:37 pm 
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congress wrote:
Also I bet Mission Kashmir used Panavision in some parts which explains why there no 'squeezing' at both left and right side of the picture and the sharpness.

Using extremely wide angle lenses causes distortion at the sides of the frame. It doesn't matter what cameras are used. I'm not a DP, but lens choices and film stocks probably contribute more to a film's sharpness than the camera.
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Masti Man
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2002 11:26 am
Posts: 190
Location: London, England
Have you all not considered the fact that some companies are just tight and lazy and cannot be bothered to remaster the picture to give it sharpness and vibrancy. Its all mainly just to do with the company and authoring equipment.

You can see the consistency in Eros dvds, nearly all of them have the same lame ass picture quality.
DEI on the other hand(with a few exceptions) mostly had great picture quality with sharp and vibrant though usually squashed picture.
YRF also usually have only adequate transfers with k3g probably the only real exception.
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congress
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:10 am 
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DragunR2 wrote:
congress wrote:
Also I bet Mission Kashmir used Panavision in some parts which explains why there no 'squeezing' at both left and right side of the picture and the sharpness.

Using extremely wide angle lenses causes distortion at the sides of the frame. It doesn't matter what cameras are used. I'm not a DP, but lens choices and film stocks probably contribute more to a film's sharpness than the camera.

I should have used the word lens to avoid confusion.What I meant by Panavision was the lenses used, of course the camera is not as important as the lenses.

I am not sure what lenses Hindi films use but I have seen Hindi films shot in Arriflex lens and Technovision lens but never in Panavision. Maybe Kaante will be a first.

What you say about the extremely wide angle lenses causes distortion is true but usually this shots are not wide angle at all.
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