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mhafner
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 8:14 pm
Posts: 1086
Got about 10 DVDs from Shemaroo India. Will have a look in
the coming days. But now for the real subject.
I watched "Pyaasa" for the first time (Dutt), and it was a
35mm print!
The experience was heartbreaking. There was a beautiful
film struggling to come out of this mess of a print...
About 90% of the film looked like it was copied again
and again and again. Contrast was from hell with totally
washed out pictures with usually zero shadow detail, gray
for black and a minimal difference between white and
'black' (=gray). It also rained continuously. Maybe 10%,
rather less though looked 'normal'. Probably from the
original negative. These parts had also good sound while
the rest sounded like over a telephone line and then duped
from MC to MC and again. :(
Is this how all DVDs look as well? Is the original negative
gone? Is the beauty of the film lost forever? That would
be a shame.
I found the technical problems very distracting, but one
could often guess how it once looked or was supposed to
look.
There is one scene in the film which I found to be vastly
superior to almost anything Bollywood produces these days.
And this scene has a moment that made me shiver from head
to toe. A classic moment of world cinema.
The film should have ended right after that moment. Too
bad it dragged on for another 20 minutes till the 'happy'
end.
You know what I'm talking about?
It's the scene where the public celebrates the poet's
one year anniversary since his 'death'. And the moment is
when in the song suddenly the volume goes up and the poet...
go see for yourself if you don't remember or have never
seen it. It's pure magic.
After that there was the stampede. The poet should have
died in that stampede, trampled by his 'fans'. That would
have been a stronger ending. Perfect.
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DVD Collector
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:45 am 
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Posts: 2070
Location: Toronto, Canada
mhafner wrote:
Is this how all DVDs look as well? Is the original negative
gone? Is the beauty of the film lost forever? That would
be a shame.

Let's be optimistic, Dreyer's Joan Of Arc was once found and competently restored, let's hope the same can happen to Dutt's Pyaasa as well in the future.

mhafner wrote:
You know what I'm talking about?
It's the scene where the public celebrates the poet's
one year anniversary since his 'death'. And the moment is
when in the song suddenly the volume goes up and the poet...
go see for yourself if you don't remember or have never
seen it. It's pure magic.
After that there was the stampede. The poet should have
died in that stampede, trampled by his 'fans'. That would
have been a stronger ending. Perfect.

I know exactly what scene your talking about, infact, I just watched that whole segmant myself earlier today and it always leaves me in "awe" everytime. It's just flawlessly done. The editing, the close-up shots and use of dark shadows is incredibly effective in transcending the whole mood of the moment. Sahir Ludhianvi's lyrics here are more than just words, it's utter philosophy.


Image
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mhafner
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:35 am 
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Posts: 1086
DVD Collector wrote:
mhafner wrote:
Is this how all DVDs look as well? Is the original negative
gone? Is the beauty of the film lost forever? That would
be a shame.

Let's be optimistic, Dreyer's Joan Of Arc was once found and competently restored, let's hope the same can happen to Dutt's Pyaasa as well in the future.

mhafner wrote:
You know what I'm talking about?
It's the scene where the public celebrates the poet's
one year anniversary since his 'death'. And the moment is
when in the song suddenly the volume goes up and the poet...
go see for yourself if you don't remember or have never
seen it. It's pure magic.
After that there was the stampede. The poet should have
died in that stampede, trampled by his 'fans'. That would
have been a stronger ending. Perfect.

I know exactly what scene your talking about, infact, I just watched that whole segmant myself earlier today and it always leaves me in "awe" everytime. It's just flawlessly done. The editing, the close-up shots and use of dark shadows is incredibly effective in transcending the whole mood of the moment. Sahir Ludhianvi's lyrics here are more than just words, it's utter philosophy.


Image

Yes, it was found in an asylum. But that print had not
been screened much at all. Pyaasa's negative has been
used to strike hundreds of prints. Till this day original
negatives are used to strike all the prints! I was told
that the prints of Baghban came from the original negative!
And when they used it for telecine it was already worn out
to some extent! Jesus. The print of Devdas I saw must have
come from the original negative too. It was too sharp for
internegative.
If the negative were still around it could be brought back
to old glory with digital technology if it's not decomposed
too much. If money were no issue you can scan it frame by
frame, even if it's no longer printable, and remove all
scratches, shrinkage, stains etc. I fear the negative is
gone and no good prints around any more. So they had
to make dupes from prints and made it very badly.
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:05 am 
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Posts: 14989
pyaasa is a master piece theatre , like devanand's guide!
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Aarkayne
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 3:20 pm
Posts: 886
arsh wrote:
pyaasa is a master piece theatre , like devanand's guide!

...You mean Vijay Anand's GUIDE ofcourse....sorry Arsh to nitpick...Dev Anand is not much of a film maker, however his brother is a different league altogether....though GUIDE may not be his best work(it deviated too much from the book, much to RK Narayan's ire, and made liberal use of cinematic liberty....TEESRI MANZIL, JEWEL THIEF, TERE MERE SAPNE are better IMHO)....but coming back to talk about PYAASA....well...Sahir, Gurudutt, SD at their best....

Yeh mahalon, yeh tajon, yeh takhton ki duniya,
Yeh duniya agar, mil bhi jaaye toh kya hai.....

Poetry reflective of the thoughts of youth of the times...very angst ridden, yet very evocative....awesome flick...but my favourite song from the movie remains the soft romantic ballad, which is so unlike Sahir (i am not sure he penned it though)

Hum aapki aankhon mein, iss dil ko basa de toh?

This dream sequence beats most dream sequences. It does not have the opulence of AWAARA's dream sequence, but is as effectively done....go Gurudutt....

Michel, I wonder if you had the chance to check out MR & MRS.55....its another one of those Gurudutt gems, that is vastly underrated.......terrific writing for those times...the hero is a cartoonist....can you catch Bollywood movies having a cartoonist in today's times...that is the woe of today's movie writing...reflective perhaps of the audiences needs of today......there is no literature left in it anymore...not to say there are not good books being written...in any case that is for a different post..sigh !!!!



Edited By Aarkayne on 1073648446
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:40 am 
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Posts: 14989
my apologies, he did acted in that fil..he is long gone case as film maker..shitty affair!
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mhafner
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 8:14 pm
Posts: 1086
Aarkayne wrote:
Michel, I wonder if you had the chance to check out MR & MRS.55

They are showing about 8 films. That one I will see next.
Time for 3 films, not more. I'm afraid. Have also seen
Paper Flowers which I liked less than Pyaasa. But it had one
scene too that instantly scored with me, the love song
where they can't meet except their 'ghosts'. Like in
Shree 420 when Kapoor leaves Nargis and a part of her wants
to run after him. The print was better but again often quite bad.
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Chirpy_Sabz
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 4:48 am
Posts: 114
Pyaasa is my favorite film ever, I'm yet to see a good print of the film :(
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rana
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 7:27 pm
Posts: 6144
monizam wrote:
Seems like everyone here is a sucker-wants wants wants..
griping griping griping..
No one seems interested to start a fund to restore this movie..
So quit griping..No one is going to spend that money to restore the film then all the pirates will start their stealing..

Don't come to conclusions monizam.

What is needed to restore a print??

Our contributions, however generous, won't even be a drop in the bucket required for the restoration.

Don't you think, Indian Film Institute in Pune already has a best avail print archieved already. They have preserved lots of films. Pyasa will definitely be in there.

Question is, how to access it??

Obviously, by paying a fee.

I'm sure Guru Dutt Films is still alive and Pyasa definitely is a cash cow for them. Wouldn't they have a pristine print.

What is needed is paying a price to the rights holders and to the pristine print holders.

Rana



Edited By rana on 1073682155
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DragunR2
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:08 pm 
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Posts: 4259
Pyaasa was definitely a beautiful film. V.K. Murthy's cinematography is fantastic and I listen to the songs a lot. The TCM print is so good that I don't want to see the current DVD transfers. If any Indian films are worthy of restoration, this is one of them. Ideally the negative should be restored, but I would not say no to a good video restoration for a DVD.

If you want to read a lengthy interview of V.K. Murthy and other cinematographers as well, visit http://www.sarai.net/cinematography. Black and white cinematography in India was frequently excellent, and it is a shame to see that it wasn't carried over into the color era.
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mhafner
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:12 pm 
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Posts: 1086
DragunR2 wrote:
Pyaasa was definitely a beautiful film. V.K. Murthy's cinematography is fantastic and I listen to the songs a lot. The TCM print is so good that I don't want to see the current DVD transfers.

The TCM print had no washed out parts? The sound quality
was crisp throughout?
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DragunR2
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:30 pm 
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Posts: 4259
mhafner wrote:
DragunR2 wrote:
Pyaasa was definitely a beautiful film. V.K. Murthy's cinematography is fantastic and I listen to the songs a lot. The TCM print is so good that I don't want to see the current DVD transfers.

The TCM print had no washed out parts? The sound quality
was crisp throughout?

I think there were a few spots here and there, but overall it exceeded my expectations and looked quite good. No major flaws that I can recall. It didn't look or sound like how you described your experience.



Edited By DragunR2 on 1073683931
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DVD Collector
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:33 pm 
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Location: Toronto, Canada
There was an interview with Mira Nair in the '95 Yearly Annual edition of Filmfare where she quotes "I own superb quality video prints of the Guru Dutt films." (Rana or anyone?) do you think she might be talking about original negatives which are available in India's IFI?

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Chirpy_Sabz
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:56 pm 
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Posts: 114
DragunR2 wrote:
mhafner wrote:
DragunR2 wrote:
Pyaasa was definitely a beautiful film. V.K. Murthy's cinematography is fantastic and I listen to the songs a lot. The TCM print is so good that I don't want to see the current DVD transfers.

The TCM print had no washed out parts? The sound quality
was crisp throughout?

I think there were a few spots here and there, but overall it exceeded my expectations and looked quite good. No major flaws that I can recall. It didn't look or sound like how you described your experience.

oh wow....lucky. I don't have TMC so... :bangbang:
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Chirpy_Sabz
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:07 pm 
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Posts: 114
DragunR2 wrote:
Pyaasa was definitely a beautiful film. V.K. Murthy's cinematography is fantastic and I listen to the songs a lot. The TCM print is so good that I don't want to see the current DVD transfers. If any Indian films are worthy of restoration, this is one of them. Ideally the negative should be restored, but I would not say no to a good video restoration for a DVD.

If you want to read a lengthy interview of V.K. Murthy and other cinematographers as well, visit http://www.sarai.net/cinematography. Black and white cinematography in India was frequently excellent, and it is a shame to see that it wasn't carried over into the color era.

thanks for the link.....

V.K. Murthy, Jal Mistry and Fali Mistry were brillant cinematographers
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