The run time difference seems to be due to 4% PAL speed up for MB PAL master. MB DVD shows frame # 6 as complimentary to # 5 showing a "50 fields per sec" to "60 fields per sec" transfer. As I said, it's field averaged but amount of combing is very little. There is some mixup between video frames, contain adjoining frames info, and hence combing. But, it's not totally field averaged.
Despite being PAL to NTSC transfer, PQ is very sharp. Better than Shemaroo even though Shemaroo DVD is Film to NTSC Pseudo-Progressive.

Moser Baer DVD if in PAL (from this PAL master) would have been a killer DVD.

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Shemaroo Extras disc has about 5 min of deleted scenes one of which is a one min exrtension of the last song (Yaad Teri Aave) (Dharmendra, Sunny, Bobby, Kiron Kher etc all in the family song).
Shem Extras disc is only 1.8 GB.

Looks like Shemaroo is pure NTSC while Moser Baer is the PAL equivalent in terms of runtime...
175 minutes - Shemaroo
168 minites - Moser Baer (also NTSC) but with 4% speedup because of PAL source?

I like this one (Moser Baer); perhaps the DivX were taken using Vivid Colours (I took the Moser Baer shots using the Original Colours setting)

moserbaer always have to cut, even ghulami n aatank hi aatank they did the same

It's quite clear from Newdeep's post and earlier from my post that Moser Baer APNE is not cut. 7 min time difference is due to 4% PAL speed up as Moser Baer DVD was done from a PAL (or a 50 fields per sec) master. Shemarroo DVD is Film to NTSC.

I checked out run time in one song and that too showed a 4% speed up for Moser Baer Apne DVD.

true...
there's no reason to believe Moser Baer is cut...

2-Disc Moser Baer is now also available in stores in India for Rs. 149. Comes with a slip case.
1-Disc Moser Baer continues to sell for Rs. 49.

Yes, I agree with Rana, but need a little lesson in fundas:
1. Film to NTSC Master is always the same length -- True?
2. Film to PAL Master is always 4% faster -- True?
3. NTSC Master to PAL is --- ??
4. PAL Master to NTSC is --- ??

Thanks

As I understand:


Almost same length. 59.97 vs 60.0
@ NTSC broadcast frequency there can be 59.97---- fields of 525 lines per second and not 60.0.
Normal practice is to record 24 film frames (per sec) into 60 fields (and not 59.97).
24 into 60 can be achieved splitting first frame into 2 fields and the next frame into three fields (or the three field one can be two fields and the third one exact repeat; Pseudo-Prog).
EROS et al record 2nd frame into three fields and thre third field has complimentary info and not the exact repeat. Don't know if it's in DVD encoding or in Telecine.
Another way of changing 24 into 60 or into 59.97 can be by averaging (Field Averaging). Should not be done but can be done.

(In case of Digital media, they need record 24 frames into 24 or 48 blocks and output to NTSC by repeating every 4th block into 5th).


Not a must, but that's the case 99% of the time.

As PAL freq is 50 (not sure if it's exact 50.0000 or aprox), and film rate is 24 fps, normal practice is to record each film frame into 2 fields. Hence 24 frames info gets into 48 PAL fields (default progressive) and hence 4% faster. It was judged that 4% speed up audio pitch was not noticeable. Moreover pitch an be corrected even if audio goes 4% faster.

Another way to convert 24 into 50 is by splitting each frame into 2 fields and to make up for 4% speed up, repeat one field after every 24 fields. Or, by field averaging 24 into 50. There must be some machines doing this, as occasionally I see some DVDs like this.


Depends:

If NTSC master is at normal speed, usually it's PAL conversion will be normal speed too. Mostly it's done by field averaging 60 into 50 (not 48).

Technically it's possible to find a 2:3 pattern in NTSC master and ignore the repeat info giving you the orig 24 film frames from where you can get a 4% speed up default progressive PAL DVD.


Again it depends:
If PAL master is 4% speed up default progressive, it's easy to detect original 24 film frames and then convert it to NTSC using any of the methods used for Film to NTSC. So, the "Film to PAL to NTSC" may or may not be 4% speed up, and it may or may not be Field Averaged or Progressive or Pseudo-Prog.
(Some EVP Hindi DVDs had every 6th field a repeat of 5th field, indicating it to be a "Film to PAL to NTSC" transfer @ 4% speed up.)

If PAL master is 24 into 50 Field Averaged or if it's every 24th field repeated, NTSC conversion too will be field averaged.

With this new indian techniques to author dvds for ntsc market from pal masters or film to ntsc and still garbled , beats me!

We should invite some one like stephen, from pal market to give his technical opinion on these issues possibly?

Secondly, in NTSC zone, all dvd players we use standalone for pal viewing do pal to ntsc conversion for our NTSC displays, that would further offset some of this speed anomalies possibly?

I finally watched moesbaer dvd, and was really impressed how good it looked on my tv, my player was able to deinterlace perfectly to my if 25 CENTS DVD CAN BE DECENT THEN WHY THE HELL, ALL THIS $25 STUFF IS SO CRUMMY/CRAPPY! Audio was imho, not done properly.

over all, film was ok, violent phenomenon, belongs to papa deol, who should get his first ever nod for film fare imho finally.

music was pathetic! back ground was ok! Sunny needs to retire.

Imho, his last venture with brother yeh dillagi was better film, that flopped! so, you can never tell!

Hmm! I said "Field Averaged" and Zoran009 player de-interlaced it perfectly. ??

I checked the DVD more carefully and found:
It's 50 to 60 conversion (most likely PAL to NTSC) for sure. But, is it field averaged ?? Stepping forward frame by frame, it has 4 individual frames with 5th frame with partial info and the 6th frame contains the remainder 5th frame info as well. Well, then it should be Pseudo-Prog ?? May be it is, but the first 4 frames too have blurred picture indicating field averaging or incorrect field combos making up a frame.

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Zoran009, did your player just de-interlaced the 60 fields or really created 24 original film frames ??
Extracting 24 Orig film frames would have been possible if it was my DVD player gave me incorrect field combos resulting in blurred frames and that your player was able to see the 2-2 repeat pattern, as well as, was able to recognize that 5th and 6th fields are complimentary.
Otherwise, may be your player just converted 60 NTSC fields into 60 frames (BOB) ??

May be mhafner can shed more light/ correct me.

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If PAL program is 4% speed up, PAL to NTSC conversion will not correct the speed. PAL to NTSC conversion does not know that PAL program has been speed up by 4%. It just distributes 50 fields info into 60 fields.

But, if it's pre-known that PAL program originated from 24 fps film, 24 orig frames can be weaved back and then using these 24 frames per sec, NTSC fields can be generated @ the orig film speed .

Darn!! I do not understand my self, I have a high end DCDI processor based dvd player that also does PAL TO NTSC and vice versa possibly.

But this dvd is already pal to ntsc converted so did not need that step.I still have to compare shemaroo side by side on my system! Mind you my TV is NTSC only, HDMI connection 1080i upscaled!

cropped video is a huge drawback to shemaroo, colors look a bit more natural, and sound is way more well balanced.

Starring: Dharmendra, Sunny Deol, Bobby Deol, Shilpa Shetty, Katrina Kaif, Javed Sheikh, Aryan Vaid And Victor Banerjee
Music: Himesh Reshammiya
Director: Anil Sharma
Released By: KMI
Run time: 171 Min 33 Sec
Subtitles: English, French, Dutch
Region: NTSC, 5.1 Dolby Digital And 2.0 Stereo, 16x9 Anamorphic Widescreen
Year: 2007
Extra: None
Btw The Sunny Deol Version Of Bullz Eye [Victor Banerjee Trains Sunny] Is Cut Out From KMI Dvd..