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rana
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2002 7:44 pm 
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Most important point for DVD encoders to encode progressively is to save space.
Why record 60 half frames if all you need is 48 half frames for Film material??
It happens to be the right way. Why encode it the wrong way??

If you are watching Film DVD on progressive set, be it on your PC or Picture tube progressive TV or Large screen progressive TV, Progressive encoding is more important than anamorphic. Progressive gives you line doubling, where as anamorphic gives you only 33% increase. Moreover, on progressive display you don't see interlacing flicker, that's a bonus.

Rana

P.S.
Ganti stated in one of the threads, how cheap projectors are. Costing as little as $1500. If you already have a PC DVD, this $1500 is all you need to spend to get large screen progressive pic if you are not happy with the small screen PC monitor.



Edited By rana on 1037821885
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2002 3:59 am 
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Lest someone misunderstands my earlier post, let me clarify. I am in no way suggesting that Indian DVDs should not be progressive and/or that it is not an important issue. What I am saying though is, that there are even more important issues to be dealt with first. First and foremost in my opinion is getting the right aspect ratio. Also quite honestly a computer monitor is really not a practical solution to watching progressive, specially not as part of a Home Theater.
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rana
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2002 4:03 pm 
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Agreed.

There are trade offs in selecting AR. Wider AR gives you smaller pic for a given screen. Trade off is cropping vs pic size. I know people who use Widescreen setting in DVD player for anamorphic DVDs when they have a 4:3 TV. They want to fill up the screen at the expense of stretched pic.
Progressive encoding for film material is a win-win situation. Advantage to DVD maker is that he can fit 25% more material on the same disc or can use a 25% higher bit rate. Advantage to consumers is better quality as well as these DVDs will be future proof.

Future proofing is specially important if you buy these DVDs for a prized collection, like I do. 85% of my DVD collection is progressive. My family really has to bug me a lot to buy a DVD of the film they like and it happens to be an interlaced DVD. I myself, haven’t knowingly bought more than 7 or 8 interlaced DVDs, no matter how much I liked the movie.

Rana
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2002 4:42 pm 
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Well!! i agree with SANJAY, on AR/Anamorphic enhanced!!

Now!! Either like HOLLYWOOD, their should be TWO VERSIONS to help both camps!! BUT!! IMPOSSIBLE!!

4:3 is CROPPED PICTURE!! so, ORIG AR is the RIGHTWAY to go!!

If some body noticed!! powerdvd4, calls, DEI dvds or dvds like PAKEEZAH and MANN that are cropped as 4:3!!hmm!

Yes BOSS by EROS was labelled as 16x9...SD/VS version is not correctly framed!!

NOW! Give and TAke!! what is a better nuisance!!

I'll go for a DEI type, letterboxed, slightly cropped picture in WS, but prog transfer, happily, in true 5.1.

or DEI, prog transfer in orig mono/stereo sound with orig 4:3 AR! rather than getting a pseudo 5.1 interlaced!!

Rana is absolutely right!! once u see prog, and start seeing it, u dont want to go back to interlaced!!
I think, sanjay, on your next US trip, u should try to use in USA prog player with prog system, and see the miracle your self, and then use, the interlaced dvd on your prog system and be the judge yourself!

we are totally screwed up by these hindi dvd makers!!

pls for god sake..give us quality/standard stuff and let people make decision, based on their resources, how they want to watch it!!

Do u think, it is ok for EROS/Vs etc to make decision for us? that here are our interlaced/pseudo5.1 lousy dvds for high price and watch it on TUBE TV, less than 27 inch, with a $50 rca/philips/apex dvd player(interlaced) listen to the sound through 2 speakers of your TV and HERE YOU GO!!
YOU ARE IN VISUAL BLISS AND AUDIO NIRVANA!!

But!! that is the actual state of affair!! :stupid: :ffs: :bangbang: :angry: :bangbang: :baaa:
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rana
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 2:31 pm 
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arsh wrote:
Well!! i agree with SANJAY, on AR/Anamorphic enhanced!!


NOW! Give and TAke!! what is a better nuisance!!

I'll go for a DEI type, letterboxed, slightly cropped picture in WS, but prog transfer, happily, in true 5.1.

or DEI, prog transfer in orig mono/stereo sound with orig 4:3 AR! rather than getting a pseudo 5.1 interlaced!!

Arsh, I wonder which version do you prefer for the following DVDs??

1) CHANDNI: EROS-DEI or Yashraj??

2) Hum Aapke Hain Kaun: EROS-DEI or EROS-B4U??

Note that both EROS-DEI versions are not only cropped, they also are non-anamorphic. Yashraj and EROS-B4U versions are not only Original Aspect Ratio, they are anamorphic as well. EROS-B4U and Yashraj versions of these DVDs fit the bill of "more important issues" as described in a post above.
Another difference is that EROS-DEI are progressive, Yashraj and EROS-B4U versions are interlaced.

Thanks.

Rana
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 4:34 pm 
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[I'll go for a DEI type, letterboxed, slightly cropped picture in WS, but prog transfer, happily, in true 5.1.]


By all means!! DEI..version of both!!!I stand by to my statement above!!!

Another Exception is MUCH PRAISED EROS/B4U version of GUPT in ORIG AR by EROS/B4U...but I still prefer DEI one!!
U have to TRY both side by side!! to PICK..I did!!

NOW!! here is the fINAL VERDICT!! WE WONT BE GETTING ANY MORE HINDI FILMS IN PROG TRANSFER...!!PERIOD!!

UNLESS/, once in a bLUE MOON CT or any other Hollywood studio picks/ does one!! that does not seem to be happening much..I think, Sony did not make much money! in MK/LAGAAN dVD!!???
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shuman
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 4:51 pm 
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Really HOPE Shemaroo is reading all this... and if it is not too much to ask (meaning: if not too costly) please keep everyone's wish by respecting aspect ratio, prog encoding, original soundtrack etc etc...

by the way, i believe this would be one of my few thread which is so popular.. eeeeee :cool: :cool: :cool:
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rana
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 5:17 pm 
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arsh wrote:
[I'll go for a DEI type, letterboxed, slightly cropped picture in WS, but prog transfer, happily, in true 5.1.]


By all means!! DEI..version of both!!!I stand by to my statement above!!!

Arsh, did you say that you preferred those DVDs where less important issue (progressive/ interlaced) was done right over those DVDs where more important issues (OAR, anamorphic) were done right??

Is your preference specific to progressive display or would you still prefer the same, if watching on a 32 inch interlaced TV ??

Rana
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rana
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 5:25 pm 
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arsh wrote:
NOW!! here is the fINAL VERDICT!! WE WONT BE GETTING ANY MORE HINDI FILMS IN PROG TRANSFER...!!PERIOD!!

This is specially true as consumers think there are more important issues than progressive encoding.

I will go the DEI route.
First decide (no effort) on progressive encoding (win-win situ), and then try to give us true anamorphic. True anamorphic as opposed to cheater anamorphic where letterbox master is used for anamorphic DVD which degrades quality instead of enhancing it. It does con/ fool the consumers though.

Rana

Congrats Shuman. Your thread flags as "popular" thread.



Edited By rana on 1037986096
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 5:36 pm 
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Ok!! rana ji!! I watch them in prog display!!

I dont know, if watching them in interlaced display and player would make much a bigger difference????

DEVDAS looks GORGIOUS on my 27 inch TV in interlaced mode too!!

In STD AR tv!! Unless you have sony that handles ANAMORPHIC DVDS very well, anamorphic does not do, what it is supposed to do!

If I have the EQUIPMENT!! I want to GET BEST out of it!!

BTW!! as far DD 5.1 is concerned!! By all means..I hate pseudo 5.1!!

GUPT!! had TRUE 5.1 sound by B4U but to my taste and EARS(very much like their HIGHLY ACCLAIMED..YES BOSS/QSQT and DKK , kinda transfer)!! DEI AUDIO REMIX was more clean, dynamic and DETAILED!!

**** Ali told me B4U/EROS GUPT is...INTERLACED!!hmm.

Couple prog dVDS, that I have!! I can try comparing them on PICTURE TUBE TV in interlaced mode!! and see what is my preference!! But!! of course!! Sound is vERY IMPT!!

or PLAYING prog in your INTERLACED SYSTEM< wont hurt you,m might benefit???

SO, again, if I have access to a Prog encoded disc in proper Surround sound, and slightly cropped AR, NON ANAMORPHIC!! vs! INTERLACED, PROPER AR and ANAMORPHIC, Pseudo 5.1!!! and I have already seen the benefit of PROG picture..TO BE FUTURE PROOF(PROG EQUIPMENT) I'll pick PROG VERSION!!!!

But!! I might be one going by my sENSES, not by VIDEO MAN senses!!

Lets MAKE THIS STARAIGHT!!

If in INDIA people dont have PROG equipment! then Do all DVDS of HINDI FILMS in USA and UK are made for to be played in INDIA only? I dont think, so! I think it says SPECIFICALLY" NOT FOR SALE IN INDIA".

If people in INDIA..want..from ERSO/SHEMROO, their indian releases, being INTERLACED, PROPER AR, ANAMORPHIC, PSEUDO 5.1...? LET IT BE!!

FOR OVERSEAS..IT SHOULD NOT BE THE SAME STORY!!
WE WANT, PROG, PROPER AR, ANAMORPHIC AND TRUE 5.1!! :baaa: :bangbang:
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:16 pm 
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arsh wrote:
If people in INDIA..want..from ERSO/SHEMROO, their indian releases, being INTERLACED, PROPER AR, ANAMORPHIC, PSEUDO 5.1...? LET IT BE!!

FOR OVERSEAS..IT SHOULD NOT BE THE SAME STORY!!
WE WANT, PROG, PROPER AR, ANAMORPHIC AND TRUE 5.1!! :baaa: :bangbang:

I think you misunderstand. I personally want all my DVDs with the following standard specifications in order of preferance, although no deviation from the below standards is acceptable to me as a decent DVD.

1) Original Aspect Ratio

2) Original Sound Format (NO pseudo crap and/or enhanced crap) Even in the case of MONO, unless a true 5.1 mix can be created from the original sound stems (unlikely), even then the original mono track should also be present.

3) Anamorphic

4) Progressive

5) No buttons disabled at any stage.

Having said that, let me explain what I was saying earlier. Shemaroo DVDs are produced primarily for the Indian market, because they only have rights to India and therefore since there are no progressive displays in the Indian market, there is not much demand and/or incentive for Shemaroo to do a progressive transfer. Actually I am not sure they even have the technical setup and/or expertise do a progressive transfer. I personally am pleasantly surprised that they are releasing DVDs with real 5.1 Dolby Digital sound. Before I actually watched their newly released DVD of 'Deewangee' I had no real expectations of getting real 5.1 sound from Shemaroo. Specialy considering overseas companies like WEG till date are releasing DVDs with crap pseudo 5.1 sound which is by far worse than just a mono track.
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rana
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:54 pm 
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Sanjay wrote:
Shemaroo DVDs are produced primarily for the Indian market, because they only have rights to India and therefore since there are no progressive displays in the Indian market, there is not much demand and/or incentive for Shemaroo to do a progressive transfer.

Shemaroo's web site details ttheir equipment and it is state of the art. Very impressive. Only thing needed is Willingness. I bet they don't know that their Bobby and Satyam Shivam Sundaram transfers are better than Sangam, Prem Rog etc. Field averaging is what they consider better and call it "Smooth Viewing". It actually is worst. Bobby and SSS are Pseudo-progressive with no field averaging.

As Shemaroo DVDs are aimed at Indian consumers, I wish they make them in PAL. It is standard for Film to PAL transfers to record 24 film frames in 48 (instead of 50) video fields at the cost of 4% speed shift. DVDs encoded this way are Progressive by default. No expertise required for this.

In PAL market, they don't call them Progressive TVs, but classify them as "refresh rate of 100 Hz (instead of 50 Hz)".

Rana



Edited By rana on 1037991343
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Zoran009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 7:27 pm 
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How come their replicates work on NTSC too???

Or people who buy from INDIA they can play SHEMROO stuff in NORTH AMERICA too!! ???
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:28 am 
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rana wrote:
In PAL market, they don't call them Progressive TVs, but classify them as "refresh rate of 100 Hz (instead of 50 Hz)".

That is not a true statement. I have a 100 Hz television which has nothing to do with it being progressive or interlaced. By the way my television even though it is 100 Hz is not capable of displaying progressive video.
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Sanjay
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:43 am 
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arsh wrote:
How come their replicates work on NTSC too???

Or people who buy from INDIA they can play SHEMROO stuff in NORTH AMERICA too!! ???

There are 2 major reasons for the DVDs in India being in NTSC.
The first one being that anyone in India with a DVD player has a muti system television therefore NTSC/PAL becoimes a moot issue for them. Also all DVD players sold here are either Region 1 NTSC players or Multi Zone PAL/NTSC players, which again makes the PAL/NTSC a moot issue.
Secondly by making the DVDs in NTSC Shemaroo hopes to be able to sell their DVDs overseas also, even though they don't have the overseas rights. After all there is no law that stops retailers from getting DVDs from India and selling them in the US or UK or elsewhere and with Shemaroos lower pricing it definately might encourage retailers overseas to do just that. In my opinion if Shemaroo played their cards right, i.e. if they were to make their DVDs of top class quality, they could really eat into the business of the likes of Eros, Video Sound, WEG etc.
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